Good book to read on Jeep steering and suspension?

psrivats

psrivats

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I'm sure you guys have seen this image below explaining the parts of the jeep front end steering and suspension. While I have decent grasp of what is what and what does what, I want to learn more and really understand things.

What is a good book that goes to decent details on the design of such systems in 4x4 vehicles? @Chris @Mike_H @mrblaine do you know anything good?


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Honestly, I've found the best reading to be forums...once you learn how to separate the wheat from the Chaff. You'll get to know the writers and your BS meter becomes pretty well honed. I can generally tell from the way people write who actually knows what they are talking about vs those who are just regurgitating something they read somewhere else.

I've looked for some good books on suspension design and unless you want to get into textbooks, its a tough row to hoe. Race Car Vehicle Dynamics is pretty much the "bible" of chassis set-up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GSCTN2U/?tag=wranglerorg-20

But...its a text book. Not an easy read. I've got Christian Lee's "High Perfomance Jeep TJ Manual" Honestly, it perpetuates a lot of the information we've found to be false, so I can't recommend it. At the time it was written though, Rubicon Express was THE lift to have and long arms were the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 
Mike_H said:
Honestly, I've found the best reading to be forums...once you learn how to separate the wheat from the Chaff. You'll get to know the writers and your BS meter becomes pretty well honed.
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Best piece of advice for anyone wanting to know something or learn.
 
mrblaine said:
Yeah, not so much. I know what I know the hard way. I didn't get it out of a book but I would certainly be glad to read any Jeep TJ related versions to check the info.
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Maybe you should write a book on all you've learned? ;)

I suspect a lot of us would actually read it!
 
mrblaine said:
Yeah, not so much. I know what I know the hard way. I didn't get it out of a book but I would certainly be glad to read any Jeep TJ related versions to check the info.
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I was afraid this was going to be the case. I somewhat understand what the components do individually but I have lots of gaps looking at the full system together. Perhaps I will look for something on older jeeps (CJ and prior) which were maybe a little bit more simpler mechanically.

@Mike_H thanks for the suggestion. Textbooks are harder to digest but I don't mind reading them .. it's sort of fun in a way. I'll see if I can get a used copy.
 
psrivats said:
I was afraid this was going to be the case. I somewhat understand what the components do individually but I have lots of gaps looking at the full system together. Perhaps I will look for something on older jeeps (CJ and prior) which were maybe a little bit more simpler mechanically.

@Mike_H thanks for the suggestion. Textbooks are harder to digest but I don't mind reading them .. it's sort of fun in a way. I'll see if I can get a used copy.
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You may be missing the obvious. Start a thread with what you want to know and between the folks some good info will get put out there as a reference.
 
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Just as an aside: Milliken's book is good, but look up Wong's "Theory of Ground Vehicles" as well. Interesting, but VERY technical. Also, slightly cheaper if I remember correctly. I have both, I've gotten a headache from both, and I really need to spend more time with both.

mrblaine said:
I suck at writing.
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I'll ghost-write it for you! Apologies in advance for it being too verbose.
 
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psrivats said:
Adding @jjvw and @bobthetj03 .. do you know of any good reading resources?
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Most of what i have learned is forum based research. Started off reading Petersons and JP, then after realizing most of that crap was, well crap, moved on to the forums. Learning curve to weed thru the bs, good info when you can find it.
 
psrivats said:
I'm sure you guys have seen this image below explaining the parts of the jeep front end steering and suspension. While I have decent grasp of what is what and what does what, I want to learn more and really understand things.

What is a good book that goes to decent details on the design of such systems in 4x4 vehicles? @Chris @Mike_H @mrblaine do you know anything good?
Click to expand...

Information on the forums or at you local shop or club is always current, tested and up to date. Books don't change, they are good for the science behind what's going on.

If you want to understand, physics, engineering and material science is where to start. Any book that talks about automotive suspension dynamics is going to assume you have college level physics/math/engineering under your belt. Cars suspensions in the 1960s were tuned using RC circuits, if you don't know what that is you might even have trouble picking up a 50 year old text on automotive design and understanding what they are talking about.

Most of the wisdom shared here is good old trial and error. Even if you do understand the science of it all you still can't figure out which new thing is great because the manufacturer probably doesn't publish any useful details that let you compare. In the end the best information is the advice of people here that have done the testing.

A great concrete example is the Rancho 5000 shock and the 5000X. The X is a great shock and people here will tell you that. But if somebody publishes a book today and says that when they come out with the 5000Z you have no idea if it is bad like the 5000 or good like the 5000X. The book would be outdated and useless pretty quick.

Understanding axle harmonics is great and you'll find that in a book like physics 101. It's all about spring constants and resonant frequencies. This information is different from the hands on experience of people here.

I know TL;DR but I hope it helps to explain that the information found here about how to maintain and modify suspension is very different and some would say separate from the information about how it works and how it is designed.
 
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pagrey said:
I know TL;DR but I hope it helps to explain that the information found here about how to maintain and modify suspension is very different and some would say separate from the information about how it works and how it is designed.
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There is enough experience for most if not all of it to morph the two into something that blends theory and practical application into something useful and understandable.
 
@pagrey I have a doctorate degree in electrical engg with a physics minor. I am no stranger to math or springs, RC circuits, electronics, harmonics (mechanical and electrical) etc. I was not looking at specific suspension component recommendations but more about learning the design details of jeep suspension and steering geometry. The factory does a great job optimizing the ride quality, longevity and capability of the vehicle. Then we go and mess with everything by installing a lift, bigger tires and whatnot. What compromises are made when we do that? How do we recover stock performance (or even make it better)? What are the tradeoffs? At what point (or at what lift height) does geometry correction becomes really needed? These are the things I want to learn and understand. Not just "slap on this kit, get these shocks, get those brackets". I want to understand the "why".

@Sancho the 2nd video is a good starting point. The small animations are great.
 
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