Robert Wollenberg

New TJ Owner
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Pembine, Wisconsin
This will be my only thread on this topic, so I'm including everything in it, until I have very specific questions. :)

So very much like the suggested related threads, I too am building a TJ. However, I'm starting from the ground up. My dad gave me his Sahara after the frame rotted out from under it. So here's where my build starts. I'm looking at buying a new frame from Throttle Down Customs. In doing that, I get to choose several options. So, if I'm going to make any changes or modifications that can be done with a fresh frame, I need to figure that out ahead of time. So that's where I'm staring this thread.

How the Jeep will mostly be used. I'm expecting for this to be my new daily driver, at least in the summer time. And definitely my weekend machine. I live in the Northeast of Wisconsin. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I take trips up into the U.P. and off road up there when I can. So I'd like the jeep to maintain some amount of road worthiness. However, I want to feel confident when offroading that it's not going to break and go where I point it. My Titan is mostly stock, nothing changed to suspension or wheels. I'd say it's been capable of getting to maybe 90 percent or so of the places I wanted to go. I can think a few places I either didn't make it or didn't even try. Often this is a water/mud hole in the trail or an occasional rock/log situation. I believe the factory tires on my titan are very near 33 inches.

So I guess the only real option that could be changed on the frame is the engine mounts. Do I stick with the 4.0, or go to something else? Many years ago I had an XJ with 35s on it. I had put an RE long arm kit on it and it didn't do too bad. That too had the 4.0. I don't need it to be particularly fast or quick. I'd choose dependable over fast or quick. So do I stick with the 4.0 or go with something else? I don't remember the exact mileage of the motor, but it's not high, I remember that. And my dad takes really good care of his stuff. He's never had any issues with the engine or transmission that I'm aware of.

On the suspension I was thinking RE long arm once again, because I thought that it was a pretty good system when I had it before. Is that a good idea or not? I was only guessing when I built my XJ. I put currie enterprises steering on it and Tom Wood drive shafts. TSL thornbird tires. That was it. I didn't do any research or ask for any help. lol. I'm trying to do better this time. :)

I'd rather not have any larger of a tire than necessary. I think it has about 31" factory, I was thinking starting out with 33" and maybe go with a 35 down the road if 33 isn't cutting it. Or should I just go 35" from the start. Or 37"? lol. I'm getting old. Crawling in and out of the thing needs to be taken into consideration as well. :)

I've read up a lot on the axles and it seems with alloy shafts, the factory axles should be fine. Does anybody disagree with that? So I'm assuming the factory transfer case should be fine. I haven't read anything to the contrary.

I intend to use this rig for camping, fishing, hunting, exploring, etc. So accessories that contribute to those activities would be a welcomed suggestion. My brother has a rooftop tent thing on his tacoma. I've always been a tent camper but have been considering a hammock as my back gets a little worse each year. :( But maybe a rooftop tent could be an option?

I'm into practicality. If something doesn't serve a purpose, I'm not too interested. So I'm not trying to build a show car or whatever. I want something functional. There's an overland group somewhere near here my brother was telling me about. I'd like to get involved with that once with is built. Lead time on the frame is like 6 months. I'll probably order it closer to winter and have it as a winter project or for next summer. I want to have a solid plan going into the build. No questions. At least no major ones.

So for anybody who made it through all that, thank you. :) I appreciate any help you guys are able to give. I don't mind investing the money into the project, as long as I can justify it. :)
I will document the entire build and post it as it moves along. My brother will be helping me with the project. He's retired Air Force as well. He and I haven't been able to hang out since we were kids. So I think we're both really looking forward to this project. :)
 
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Can't speak to all of these but quickly,

4.0 should be fine. Regear, and I'd probably shoot for 35's.

Rust wise, frame isn't the only thing that rusts on these. How are the torque tubes (part of body where frame bolts to body)?
 
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Can't speak to all of these but quickly,

4.0 should be fine. Regear, and I'd probably shoot for 35's.

Rust wise, frame isn't the only thing that rusts on these. How are the torque tubes (part of body where frame bolts to body)?

I have no idea. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up.
 
This will be my only thread on this topic, so I'm including everything in it, until I have very specific questions. :)
welcome to the forum 🍻
My dad gave me his Sahara after the frame rotted out from under it. So here's where my build starts. I'm looking at buying a new frame from Throttle Down Customs.
Any particular reason on going with a new frame as opposed to sourcing a clean used frame?
Do I stick with the 4.0, or go to something else?
Stick with the 4.0 unless you're willing and able to invest the time and money into an LS or Hemi swap.
On the suspension I was thinking RE long arm once again, because I thought that it was a pretty good system when I had it before. Is that a good idea or not?
Long arm kits aren't favored by most here. If you're starting from scratch, look into a 4" short arm kit from RockJock 4x4 (formerly Currie) and the best shocks you can afford (preferably tunable).
I'd rather not have any larger of a tire than necessary. I think it has about 31" factory, I was thinking starting out with 33" and maybe go with a 35 down the road if 33 isn't cutting it. Or should I just go 35" from the start. Or 37"? lol. I'm getting old. Crawling in and out of the thing needs to be taken into consideration as well. :)
The jump from 33 to 35 doesn't seem that big but it can add significant cost to a properly built rig. With 35s expensive steering, braking and axle shaft upgrades become necessary in my opinion (RockJock 4x4 CurrectLync steering ~$700, a big brake kit from mrblaine at Black Magic Brakes ~$1500 and Revolution Gear and Axle chromoly axle shafts ~$1250). 37" tires are too large for stock TJ axles and wheelbase.
So I'm assuming the factory transfer case should be fine. I haven't read anything to the contrary.
Yes, if it's in good working order.
I intend to use this rig for camping, fishing, hunting, exploring, etc. So accessories that contribute to those activities would be a welcomed suggestion. My brother has a rooftop tent thing on his tacoma. I've always been a tent camper but have been considering a hammock as my back gets a little worse each year. :( But maybe a rooftop tent could be an option?
Rooftop tents are another "mod" that aren't favored by most. Some members have built/bought lightweight trailers and put a "rooftop" tent on them. This is a better option to me as you're not having to haul around or R&R a heavy rooftop tent when it's not being used (which is the majority of the time).
I'm into practicality. If something doesn't serve a purpose, I'm not too interested.
The aforementioned mrblaine has a build philosophy of "everything you need and nothing you don't" and many members here, myself included, subscribe to that for the most part.
I don't mind investing the money into the project, as long as I can justify it. :)
That's good because we're experts at helping you spend your money. :LOL:
My brother will be helping me with the project. He's retired Air Force as well. He and I haven't been able to hang out since we were kids. So I think we're both really looking forward to this project. :)
That's sounds like it will be great fun.
 
Good to see a new build here!

You'd probably be happy with 33's for hunting,camping and exploring. 35s will be a significant hit to the fuel mileage and range(exploring,camping) dept.

Front and rear selectable lockers and a winch will go a long way towards confident and capable.

I'd leave the 4.0l/trans/tcase alone.

I also wonder why you want an extremely spendy new frame?

If it has the Dana 44 rear you could run its stock shafts and put revolution axles in the Dana 30 and be set.Dana 35 rear do a super35 kit. And second using a currie lift and track bars.do it once and have quality parts that don't break down easily

For camping i like an easy setup tent that pops up,an air mattress and memory foam topper pad. Its like sleeping at home. I don't like swaying around on the top of a rig trying to sleep. Or climbing down and out of it in the dark to piss.

@Chris or @Wildman can hopefully move this thread to the build section for you
 
Any particular reason on going with a new frame as opposed to sourcing a clean used frame?

Well, I know these frames have issues with rusting from the inside out and I'm worried that a used frame will have one foot in the grave already. lol.

Long arm kits aren't favored by most here. If you're starting from scratch, look into a 4" short arm kit from RockJock 4x4 (formerly Currie) and the best shocks you can afford (preferably tunable).

This is why I came looking for help this time. I know where my strengths are, and knowing/understanding how to build a jeep surly isn't it.

Rooftop tents are another "mod" that aren't favored by most. Some members have built/bought lightweight trailers and put a "rooftop" tent on them. This is a better option to me as you're not having to haul around or R&R a heavy rooftop tent when it's not being used (which is the majority of the time).

I like the trailer idea. I'd much prefer that over a rooftop for that exact reason. For as often as I'm likely to be using it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it on there 24/7.

That's sounds like it will be great fun.

So a short arm lift and 33s should be more than capable enough? How much of a difference does a jeep's wheelbase make offroad compared to a pickup truck? I offraoded my XJ, but that was in Texas. Some rock crawling, little mud, and I hadn't even had the lift and tires on it at that point. I cut and welded the back wheel wells, and cut out the front fenders, and put 31s on it I think it was. I had later put the long arm kit on with the 35s, and then got sent back to Texas, but didn't really have a chance to off road it much before I sold it. :( I miss that rig.

Like I said, I want a good capable, dependable, rig. And if I'm being honest with myself, I'm getting older and my body continues to fall apart on me. So I might be doing less offroading than I'd like to believe in the future. My heart and mind are younger than my body. I don't want to build a rig I can't even get in and out of. :(
 
Well, I know these frames have issues with rusting from the inside out and I'm worried that a used frame will have one foot in the grave already. lol.
You could always hot dip galvanize...
images.jpeg
 
I also wonder why you want an extremely spendy new frame?

It's not so much that I wanted the frame, I was just afraid of buying a used frame only to have it rust out in a couple years and have to do it all over again. Is there a way/place to make sure I'm getting a solid used frame? I'd be ok going that route.
If it has the Dana 44 rear you could run its stock shafts and put revolution axles in the Dana 30 and be set.Dana 35 rear do a super35 kit. And second using a currie lift and track bars.do it once and have quality parts that don't break down easily

I'm not exactly sure which axles are in it. I've only ridden in the thing a couple of times. My dad took his dog out on the fire lane at 5 miles per hour to take his dog to the lakes to check water levels and what not. It's been a very pampered jeep. :)
For camping i like an easy setup tent that pops up,an air mattress and memory foam topper pad. Its like sleeping at home. I don't like swaying around on the top of a rig trying to sleep. Or climbing down and out of it in the dark to piss.

This is what I use now. And it's fine as long as the air mattress doesn't go flat in the middle of the night. :( that sucks. I need a more durable air mattress. Especially when I take my dog with me. He's not a small dog. lol.
 
Well, I know these frames have issues with rusting from the inside out and I'm worried that a used frame will have one foot in the grave already. lol.
Being from SoCal, I'm no rust mitigation expert but if you can source a clean used frame there are products you can use from semi-permanent like Eastwood internal frame coating to annually applied fluid film.
I like the trailer idea. I'd much prefer that over a rooftop for that exact reason. For as often as I'm likely to be using it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it on there 24/7.
👍
So a short arm lift and 33s should be more than capable enough?
yup
How much of a difference does a jeep's wheelbase make offroad compared to a pickup truck?
it's superior in most aspects except for very steep hill climbs and high speed desert/dune running
Like I said, I want a good capable, dependable, rig. And if I'm being honest with myself, I'm getting older and my body continues to fall apart on me. So I might be doing less offroading than I'd like to believe in the future.
A 33" tire based build will serve you well for moderate off-road, hunting, camping trips.
My heart and mind are younger than my body. I don't want to build a rig I can't even get in and out of. :(
I'd bet that is the same with most of us. ;)
 
Well, I know these frames have issues with rusting from the inside out and I'm worried that a used frame will have one foot in the grave already. lol.



This is why I came looking for help this time. I know where my strengths are, and knowing/understanding how to build a jeep surly isn't it.



I like the trailer idea. I'd much prefer that over a rooftop for that exact reason. For as often as I'm likely to be using it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it on there 24/7.



So a short arm lift and 33s should be more than capable enough? How much of a difference does a jeep's wheelbase make offroad compared to a pickup truck? I offraoded my XJ, but that was in Texas. Some rock crawling, little mud, and I hadn't even had the lift and tires on it at that point. I cut and welded the back wheel wells, and cut out the front fenders, and put 31s on it I think it was. I had later put the long arm kit on with the 35s, and then got sent back to Texas, but didn't really have a chance to off road it much before I sold it. :( I miss that rig.

Like I said, I want a good capable, dependable, rig. And if I'm being honest with myself, I'm getting older and my body continues to fall apart on me. So I might be doing less offroading than I'd like to believe in the future. My heart and mind are younger than my body. I don't want to build a rig I can't even get in and out of. :(

A TJ on 33’s with lockers is almost unstoppable. I easily outwheeled and many occasions embarrassed a wheeling buddy who was in an XJ on 35’s with spools. Over and over what was a cake walk in a TJ was simply not possible for him. I can’t tell you why, but it was true. Maybe the short wheel base had something to do with it, though that’s not always an advantage. The entry and departure angles are awesome on a properly lifted 4” with 33’s build. This was wheelin in TX at Hidden Falls.
 
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It's not so much that I wanted the frame, I was just afraid of buying a used frame only to have it rust out in a couple years and have to do it all over again. Is there a way/place to make sure I'm getting a solid used frame? I'd be ok going that route.


I'm not exactly sure which axles are in it.
Your jeep will have either a Dana 35 or Dana 44 in the rear. Compare the rear cover to this pic
download (2).jpeg


A decent frame would probably need to come from a jeep that hasn't seen northern winters. So out of state wreckers or get an inspection camera to check out the inside of any frame you find. You need to google to find a place near you if you really wanted galvanizing.
 
A lot of good advice here, my 2 cents based on what you stated. Stick with the 4.0, solid and reliable and runs forever. 37s will cost major dollars, new axles, etc. 35s done right are expensive but can use the stock axles with some upgrades depending what you have Dana 44/35.
 
Your jeep will have either a Dana 35 or Dana 44 in the rear. Compare the rear cover to this pic
View attachment 402094

A decent frame would probably need to come from a jeep that hasn't seen northern winters. So out of state wreckers or get an inspection camera to check out the inside of any frame you find. You need to google to find a place near you if you really wanted galvanizing.

I'll check this out as soon as I get a chance. Jeep is in a snow bank right now.
 
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