So it's a trust issue and you want documented evidence from the manufacturer per compliance.
How do you perceive others may have achieved what your exploring?
Help interpreting legality of bigger tires and lift in Australia
- Thread starter SPECHA
- Start date
So it's a trust issue and you want documented evidence from the manufacturer per compliance.
How do you perceive others may have achieved what your exploring?
I'm not sure what you mean about a trust issue or the perceiving of others, i'm not picking up what you're putting down on that.
I'm pragmatically making inquiries about whether anyone has been able to achieve their combined lift as outlined in VSB-14 13.3.1/VSI-8.
Let's not get off topic with hypotheticals and perceivings. I just want to know what people's experiences have been on this and what conception people have of the current legalities and whether this document sheds light on the dos and don'ts of 4WD owners who have mods on their vehicles, at least in Victoria.
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You state that the requirements are completely lumped on the suspension kit manufacturer. Do you not trust said manufacturer to provide you with a legal kit?
The bulk of people would be buying a well known commercial 50mm suspension kit, along with fitting up to a 50mm larger diameter tyre as per the regulations. It's self certification and this is what the legislation is asking you to do, What's the issue with doing it?
The rest of the owners would be doing modifications outside of the rulings in question and are therefore going through Engineering.
Is the above not clear to you?
or are you just after feedback on the current legislation rather than how it might work for the consumer who is trying to self certify their modification and conform to the rules?
Ok, now I understand a bit more of where you're going with your questioning. A lot of this is still new to me and I don't know all the jargon yet.
So, when you say 'self assessed' you're just saying that the person is making sure that it fits the VSB-14 13.3.1 requirements that it is: a commercial kit, provided by a corporation, and is fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions (paraphrasing). Is that what you're saying is meant by the wording "when assessed at" in the wording of Option 1 in the following paragraph:
"
specifically designed and tested by the suspension lift kit manufacturer for the make/model/variant of the vehicle being modified to ensure no
adverse effect on the modified vehicle’s propensity for rollover, handling characteristics, braking performance and structural integrity when assessed at the combined suspension lift (up to 50mm) and tyre radius increase (up to 25mm), i.e. a total increase in ride height of up to 75mm
"
To me when I read the quote above, it is ambiguous whether it means "self assessed" or " manufacturer assessed". VicRoads takes the position that it means manufacturer assessed. That's what their engineers say. My VASS engineer currently thinks the same. But, if there is evidence to the contrary we're happy to hear it!
(To answer your question, it is just really what this wording means to people who might have come across this before. I can relate my reading of it, and ask the forum how other people read it, because it comes down to this point whether the '50mm sus/50mm tyre dia mod' is to the letter of the law legal or not).
There are two different assessments being done here.
1. Manufacture assessed: The suspension manufacturer is assessing that the kit designed for 'x' vehicle meets the requirements for manufacture/handling/height laid out in the legislation before it goes on sale.
2. Self assessed: The consumer buys the above kit with the goodwill from the manufacturer that the kit meets the 50mm height requirement along with all of the other requirements in the legislation. The consumer then makes the assessment that whatever tyres they fit meet the maximum of 50mm larger in diameter requirement.
Nothing is ambiguous in the wording, and I also agree with Vicroads, their engineers and your engineer. It's very black and white.
One thing to remember however especially with older vehicles like our Jeeps and that the current suspension is more than likely sagged. So fitting a 50mm kit from a manufacturer may or may not give you a larger lift than the 50mm suggested.
Can I come and live in the USA our woke laws suck.
Your original quote was the following.
"
I'll play. What you're looking at is for self assessment purposes so follow these rules and you "should" be ok.
The wording of VSB 8 option 1 is below.
Option 1 allows for a maximum suspension lift of 50mm, provided that at least two-thirds of original suspension travel in either direction is retained. This, with the increase in the wheel/tyre radius of 25mm, provides an acceptable total maximum lift of 75mm.
Only commercially available suspension kits, which are manufactured by a corporation and specifically designed and tested by the manufacturer for that make and model of vehicle, may be used.
Kits must be fitted according to manufacturer’s instructions and include a written statement of the suitability of the suspension kit for the vehicle. This is to be retained by the vehicle owner.
"
In this you are indicating that you can legally do a 50mm sus lift combined with a 50mm tyre dia increase. Then I pointed out you got a few things wrong / left out the most crucial part with this and quoted the word-for-word VSB statement.
Now you say this:
"
Nothing is ambiguous in the wording, and I also agree with Vicroads, their engineers and your engineer. It's very black and white.
"
Indicating that you can't do the 50mm sus + 50 tyre dia.
So which is it? You've given me conflicting statements now. Are you trolling?
"
I'll play. What you're looking at is for self assessment purposes so follow these rules and you "should" be ok.
The wording of VSB 8 option 1 is below.
Option 1 allows for a maximum suspension lift of 50mm, provided that at least two-thirds of original suspension travel in either direction is retained. This, with the increase in the wheel/tyre radius of 25mm, provides an acceptable total maximum lift of 75mm.
Only commercially available suspension kits, which are manufactured by a corporation and specifically designed and tested by the manufacturer for that make and model of vehicle, may be used.
Kits must be fitted according to manufacturer’s instructions and include a written statement of the suitability of the suspension kit for the vehicle. This is to be retained by the vehicle owner.
"
In this you are indicating that you can legally do a 50mm sus lift combined with a 50mm tyre dia increase. Then I pointed out you got a few things wrong / left out the most crucial part with this and quoted the word-for-word VSB statement.
Now you say this:
"
Nothing is ambiguous in the wording, and I also agree with Vicroads, their engineers and your engineer. It's very black and white.
"
Indicating that you can't do the 50mm sus + 50 tyre dia.
So which is it? You've given me conflicting statements now. Are you trolling?
You really don't get it, I'll try again but this is the last time.
The allowable self certified 75mm ride height change is made up through a maximum 50mm suspension lift thats manufacturer certified to comply with the requirements of the legislation
The tyre change is to a maximum 50mm diameter increase giving you a tyre radius increase of 25mm (half of the 50mm diameter increase).
Thats your 75mm ride height increase.
It's up to you (not the manufacturer) to make sure that the vehicle isn't lifted any further than the 75mm allowed when you combine the suspension and your chosen tyres.
What the Vicroads and the engineers are telling you, is that the suspension manufacturers will take the responsibility of the suspension suitability, the tyre fitment is for you to self certify.
Best of luck.
No I don't get it, because you've contradicted what you said a few times.
VSB-14 reads as the manufacturer is the one that needs to assess the combined ride height, not the individual - unless you're saying that that part of VSB 13.3.1 is not suggesting that?
Just in a nut shell, what are you saying is legal in victoria? 75mm combined lift? 50mm sus by manufacturer and 50mm tyre dia by the individual? Because that sounds like what you're saying.
My problem with you saying that is that you then go on to say my VASS engineer and VicRoads are correct... but they don't agree with your statement about 75mm being legal in the context you said.
So yes I don't get what you're saying.
VSB-14 reads as the manufacturer is the one that needs to assess the combined ride height, not the individual - unless you're saying that that part of VSB 13.3.1 is not suggesting that?
Just in a nut shell, what are you saying is legal in victoria? 75mm combined lift? 50mm sus by manufacturer and 50mm tyre dia by the individual? Because that sounds like what you're saying.
My problem with you saying that is that you then go on to say my VASS engineer and VicRoads are correct... but they don't agree with your statement about 75mm being legal in the context you said.
So yes I don't get what you're saying.