Wombat
TJ Enthusiast
On a convertible vehicle that's Irrelevant, perhaps he just didn't spend enough money on his lawyer
Help interpreting legality of bigger tires and lift in Australia
- Thread starter SPECHA
- Start date
Not only irrelevant but the TJ is designed to be run with the doors off and as such the manufacturer has routed the exhaust to be safe in that regard. Unless they are talking about the vehicle next to you.
Insurance is the big issue! without an engineers certificate in West Australia 31" tyres and a 2"lift is your max.
Tons of TJ,s getting around with higher lift and bigger tyres though and many cops are not interested unless you get pulled over for other reasons and then they might go check.
But insurance, have an accident on larger than legal and you could be your on your own if you have not notified insurance company of modifications who will of course require to sight the engineers certificate.
All Australian vehicles have government 3rd party injury insurance built into the yearly licencing fees MVIT this covers injuries to persons even if injured by an uninsured/ unlicensed driver, if the car you are driving is un road worthy you will be back charged for the costs paid out to any injured persons.
Tons of TJ,s getting around with higher lift and bigger tyres though and many cops are not interested unless you get pulled over for other reasons and then they might go check.
But insurance, have an accident on larger than legal and you could be your on your own if you have not notified insurance company of modifications who will of course require to sight the engineers certificate.
All Australian vehicles have government 3rd party injury insurance built into the yearly licencing fees MVIT this covers injuries to persons even if injured by an uninsured/ unlicensed driver, if the car you are driving is un road worthy you will be back charged for the costs paid out to any injured persons.
Wombat
TJ Enthusiast
Yes but 31,s measure about 30" anyway.
I have just put 29" on if I knew the 31,s would have fitted without a lift I would have bought 31,s
Probably why there are so many stock TJ,s in OZ, might void the tyre warranty if you go bigger than the 2 sizes especially if you go with one of the big tyre chain stores.
If you search tyres for a TJ all the 31,s say not available for your vehicle.
I was going to do a 2" lift but might look a bit odd with 29,s plus my gears are only 3.07,s
Hammer24
TJ Enthusiast
Wombat
TJ Enthusiast
Well yes and no...
...If you run "quick disconnects" there is a good chance they will rub at full articulation and they will most certainly rub on your control arms on stock rims.
I'd suggest that's why in the USA you could buy a TJ with a 30x9.5 Goodyear GS-A Tyre option from the factory because it didn't involve any mod to the factory standard. Nevertheless, in ASStralia we never got that option or the Rubicon, ( Daimler/Chrysler new ADS would have a field day with the Rubicon so they didn't bother bringing it out) and for that matter ADS even caned the 33" Tyre fitted to the current JL in the USA.
My TJ is certified to fit 33x10.5 and it not only cost a bunch but at any time a cop decides he wants to challenge the cert I need to go to court and prove it's validity and now my engineer has retired that is a challenge I'm not prepared to defend.
We live in the nanny of nanny states that makes California look like a TJ modification paradise. Hell! We even need warnings on our trams that state, and I quote "TRAMS CAN'T SWERVE", because we have so many migrants that spent more time wearing sandals then driving cars in there homeland that they have trouble understanding trams don't come with a steering wheel.
I'm considering hanging up my off road boots on account of the above conundrum.
I have only had it 10 months and thought the tyres were ok but noticed wear on one so I just changed them for new 29x9.5.
I was going to just cop the tyre loss when I eventually got round to a 2" lift and 31X10.5,s but dont seem much point now since I found out my Dana 44 and Dana 30 only have 3.07 gears! thing is this TJ is not at all sluggish with the 3.07,s or doesn't labour even on hills? Maybe because I used to drive 6 wheelers I use the 6 speed as its intended? Or maybe because our nanny state speed cameras everywhere ?
I was going to just cop the tyre loss when I eventually got round to a 2" lift and 31X10.5,s but dont seem much point now since I found out my Dana 44 and Dana 30 only have 3.07 gears! thing is this TJ is not at all sluggish with the 3.07,s or doesn't labour even on hills? Maybe because I used to drive 6 wheelers I use the 6 speed as its intended? Or maybe because our nanny state speed cameras everywhere ?
Quite common on Aussie 4x4 forums for people asking to borrow stock wheels and tyres so they can pass a defect inspection. at least in West Australia we have no tests at all unless you get a defect from a cop or scalie, Over East they need an inspection to sell a Vehicle.
Some US State laws are similar its just your cops are too busy with crime while ours are still getting used to eating donuts lol
Illegal to have wheel spacers too! If you have wheel spacers and get your brakes serviced the shop is not allowed to touch it!
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Thats not entirely correct, in NSW we need a safety inspection every year. You need nothing to sell a vehicle.
There's an issue here in Aus where we have a set of nation wide rules for vehicles to be registered, called ADR's (Australian Design Rules) new cars coming into the country have these rulings apply to them. They don't have any tyre or lift sizing limits. However, the states of Australia have each decided to set hard limits for lift and tyres 'in their state'.
In NSW we have 75mm overall lift before you need engineering, tyres can be 2" in diameter larger than stock.. Go though engineering and we have JKU's running Dana 60's with 37's legally, that's after doing lane change and brake test (approx $3k). I'm currently trying to reach out to an engineer to have a chat about a few things but geez they are difficult to get ahold of.
The weird thing is these rules are all over the place. Do mods prior to the vehicles first registration and the vehicle comes under ADR rulings, not the individual state rulings. The 79 series boys are all over this with GVM mods, tyre sizing etc.
Then there's this, a Chev Silverado is derated from what it can tow in the states, so it fits into the car driver licence rulings being able to tow items under 4.49t. However, if you register said Chev 'prior' to fist registration so it can tow what they can legally stateside 'and' upgrade your drivers licence to a truck licence. You can then not only tow 9t or something but you can legally lift it 6" and run 37's (without engineering) because it then lies outside of the general motor vehicle classifications.
Does your head in.
I sort of didnt look into any of this before I got a TJ but alas at 60 I have now become my Dad lol
My FJ40 in the 90,s had a single big spotlight in the centre of the Bullbar and I had no idea it was illegal! They have just changed the rules though in W.A because of the need for single LED light bars and Ute LED work lights.
You cant drive in WA with your fog lights on if there is no fog, unless you drive a Navara then you can because you cant turn them off unless your headlights are on lol
Wombat
TJ Enthusiast
God knows why I am re visiting these old threads, boredom?
Anyway a friend at work got pulled over last week with a 6inch inch lift and 35,s now its off the road because he didn't keep any of the old component's, cost him plenty to build recently but now doesn't have the cash to put it back for inspection, so its off the road until others are willing to help swap then swap back! A motorbike cop travelling in the opposite direction on a 4 lane Highway notice too much front tyre below his ARB bumper.
So to answer your question : people get pulled over and vehicle's put off the road with work orders in Australia all the time and its very common but purchasers of ready modded are the worst hit because they don't even think about the laws until they get pulled over whereas those doing the mods are told of the law limits when having them fitted or trying to have them fitted
Another story, a girl bought a TJ and on recommendation she had 33,s put on, tyres were purchase online and fitted by a mobile fitter with disposal of old, problem is she had no lift and 3.07 gears so was trying desperately to swap back with people on FB, If she went to a chain tyre fitter they usually will not fit over 2 sizes up unless you accept a warranty /damage void waiver and I believe they would not have been allowed by law to fit 33,s as the tyre fitters would be causing her vehicle to be completely un road worthy and dangerous to drive.
Has anyone been able to utilise "Option 1" of VSI-8 to achieve a legal 75mm combined lift? I'm struggling to find any suspension lift manufacturer who even knows what VSB-14 is let alone done testing for exact makes and models above OEM tyre sizing. Help anyone?
I'll play. What you're looking at is for self assessment purposes so follow these rules and you "should" be ok.
The wording of VSB 8 option 1 is below.
Option 1 allows for a maximum suspension lift of 50mm, provided that at least two-thirds of original suspension travel in either direction is retained. This, with the increase in the wheel/tyre radius of 25mm, provides an acceptable total maximum lift of 75mm.
Only commercially available suspension kits, which are manufactured by a corporation and specifically designed and tested by the manufacturer for that make and model of vehicle, may be used.
Kits must be fitted according to manufacturer’s instructions and include a written statement of the suitability of the suspension kit for the vehicle. This is to be retained by the vehicle owner.
It's the traditional rock-up to your suspension manufacturer of choice and get the traditional Australian 2" (50mm) lift. Suspension done. Keep the paperwork as it shows suitability of the suspension system for the vehicle.
What you need to be wary about are the US and no name kits that suggest a 2" lift but are 3" or more. Buy from someone like ARB (who make a really good kit for a TJ that gets used for general road/offroad use) and you'll be ok because if they weren't every man and their dog would be complaining about being defected wth an ARB kit on.
Tyres: 50mm diameter change max so 25mm lift. Standard Jeep TJ's came with 225/75x15
Here's a calculator that gives rough size differences.
https://www.tempetyres.com.au/tyre-size-calculator
If you want to be pedantic you need a tyre with a diameter of no more than 769mm to be able to provide legality. shop the manufacturers tyre size charts and you'll find sizing all over the place.
My personal opinion. To be left alone in a TJ, you need
• a full width front bar - cops drive along and if they see a a stubby front bar they'll take a second look leading to a roadside chat. My 3/4 width bar was ok for years until it wasn't one day. Fitted the ARB front bar, no further issues.
• Flares - The standard flares will get less looks from plod than flat flares - remember you need full coverage when looking forward from the rear of the vehicle.
• Wheels and tyres - If you have tyre poke you're playing Russian Roulette. Don't run massive offset rims.
• Suspension - 2" (50mm lift).
• Rear Mudflaps - Cops get very excited if you don't have these and they need to cover all of the tread of the tyres. If you need 6" flares for coverage, you need to extend the mudflap out too.
Suggested setups using the self certification rules:
For the worrier and near as to totally legal as you'll get: Full width front bar, 2" ARB lift, 30.5-31" tyre and rear mud flaps, I'd even go for the commercial plastic type flat flares with this setup if you wanted to.
For the lets push this and still keep fairly legal and under the radar: full width front bar, 2" lift, standard looking flares (6" wide are ok) and up to a 32" tyre with rear mud flaps. This is what I've come down to after 2 defects from the same guy, however if I get pulled over and they get the measure out or I get sent to a defect station (oh yes we have these setup now and then) I'm getting a defect for tyres.
The wording of VSB 8 option 1 is below.
Option 1 allows for a maximum suspension lift of 50mm, provided that at least two-thirds of original suspension travel in either direction is retained. This, with the increase in the wheel/tyre radius of 25mm, provides an acceptable total maximum lift of 75mm.
Only commercially available suspension kits, which are manufactured by a corporation and specifically designed and tested by the manufacturer for that make and model of vehicle, may be used.
Kits must be fitted according to manufacturer’s instructions and include a written statement of the suitability of the suspension kit for the vehicle. This is to be retained by the vehicle owner.
It's the traditional rock-up to your suspension manufacturer of choice and get the traditional Australian 2" (50mm) lift. Suspension done. Keep the paperwork as it shows suitability of the suspension system for the vehicle.
What you need to be wary about are the US and no name kits that suggest a 2" lift but are 3" or more. Buy from someone like ARB (who make a really good kit for a TJ that gets used for general road/offroad use) and you'll be ok because if they weren't every man and their dog would be complaining about being defected wth an ARB kit on.
Tyres: 50mm diameter change max so 25mm lift. Standard Jeep TJ's came with 225/75x15
Here's a calculator that gives rough size differences.
https://www.tempetyres.com.au/tyre-size-calculator
If you want to be pedantic you need a tyre with a diameter of no more than 769mm to be able to provide legality. shop the manufacturers tyre size charts and you'll find sizing all over the place.
My personal opinion. To be left alone in a TJ, you need
• a full width front bar - cops drive along and if they see a a stubby front bar they'll take a second look leading to a roadside chat. My 3/4 width bar was ok for years until it wasn't one day. Fitted the ARB front bar, no further issues.
• Flares - The standard flares will get less looks from plod than flat flares - remember you need full coverage when looking forward from the rear of the vehicle.
• Wheels and tyres - If you have tyre poke you're playing Russian Roulette. Don't run massive offset rims.
• Suspension - 2" (50mm lift).
• Rear Mudflaps - Cops get very excited if you don't have these and they need to cover all of the tread of the tyres. If you need 6" flares for coverage, you need to extend the mudflap out too.
Suggested setups using the self certification rules:
For the worrier and near as to totally legal as you'll get: Full width front bar, 2" ARB lift, 30.5-31" tyre and rear mud flaps, I'd even go for the commercial plastic type flat flares with this setup if you wanted to.
For the lets push this and still keep fairly legal and under the radar: full width front bar, 2" lift, standard looking flares (6" wide are ok) and up to a 32" tyre with rear mud flaps. This is what I've come down to after 2 defects from the same guy, however if I get pulled over and they get the measure out or I get sent to a defect station (oh yes we have these setup now and then) I'm getting a defect for tyres.
Just a couple of corrections. The document is VSB-14, not VSB-8. VSI-8 is the summary version where the info is a bit more concisely set out.
You forgot a major part of the VSI-8 Option 1, the part where it says, "Suspension lift kits must be specifically designed and tested by the suspension lift kit manufacturer for the make/model/variant of the vehicle being modified to ensure no adverse effect on the modified vehicle’s propensity for rollover, handling characteristics, braking performance and structural integrity when assessed at the combined suspension lift (up to 50mm) and tyre radius increase (up to 25mm), i.e. a total increase in ride height of up to 75mm". This means that the manufacturers must have assessed your make and model at the 50mm tyre height during their testing period, not just OEM tyre sizes. This actually throws massive spanner in the works trying to get Option 1 to work that I've looked at so far.
Whatever your interpretation of the relevant legislation (its the same legislation), you're looking for issues that just aren't there.
Companies like Superior give a lot of engineering data with kits because the lifts they manufacture for Toyotas and Nissans. All require lots of mods/welding to the vehicle and are over 50mm so require engineering. Because Superior have done the engineering for you, they have type approval. The data provided makes things a lot easier to get legal with your engineer.
For the self assessment components we're talking about, does the legislation state you need documentation or does it state that the kits must be designed for the vehicle in question by a registered business manufacturing said kits? It's the later, and the onus is on the manufacture to provide you a kit that fits the legislation. It's self assessment for you and self assessment for the manufacturer.
I get the feeling you are wanting someone to take ALL of the risk for you. If this is the case, pay the cash, talk to an engineer with regard to potential modifications and can they sign off on it and provide engineering papers. Then and only then can you be defected/refused an insurance claim and get to wave a piece of paper stating no, It's all legal.
Companies like Superior give a lot of engineering data with kits because the lifts they manufacture for Toyotas and Nissans. All require lots of mods/welding to the vehicle and are over 50mm so require engineering. Because Superior have done the engineering for you, they have type approval. The data provided makes things a lot easier to get legal with your engineer.
For the self assessment components we're talking about, does the legislation state you need documentation or does it state that the kits must be designed for the vehicle in question by a registered business manufacturing said kits? It's the later, and the onus is on the manufacture to provide you a kit that fits the legislation. It's self assessment for you and self assessment for the manufacturer.
I get the feeling you are wanting someone to take ALL of the risk for you. If this is the case, pay the cash, talk to an engineer with regard to potential modifications and can they sign off on it and provide engineering papers. Then and only then can you be defected/refused an insurance claim and get to wave a piece of paper stating no, It's all legal.
There's no interpretation, it clearly states what you can and can't do. Vic Roads has reiterated this.
Here's the Option 1 VSI-8 in full:
"
VSB 14 Modification Code LS
Modifications listed under section 1.1 and 4 of VSB 14 section LS are considered to be approved modifications when conducted in
accordance with instructions and compliance with Standards for Registration are maintained.
Raising of four wheel drive vehicles – alternative to VSB 14 Modification Code LS
In the case of raising the height of an off road type 4WD of ADR Category NA, NB1, MC or MD, and only in this case, the following applies as an alternative
to meeting the suspension lift requirements of Section LS of VSB 14:
∞ A combination of suspension lift and the fitting of larger diameter tyres that results in a total lift of up to 75mm without the need for the
testing and certification normally required by VSB 14 for lifts above 50mm
∞ The vehicle’s suspension may be raised by up to 50mm, provided that sufficient suspension travel in either direction is retained.
∞ Only commercially available suspension kits may be used.
∞ Such kits must be:
- manufactured and supplied by a Corporation;
- specifically designed and tested by the suspension lift kit manufacturer for the make/model/variant of the vehicle being modified to ensure no
adverse effect on the modified vehicle’s propensity for rollover, handling characteristics, braking performance and structural integrity when assessed at the combined suspension lift (up to 50mm) and tyre radius increase (up to 25mm), i.e. a total increase in ride height of up to 75mm; and
- fitted in accordance with the kit manufacturer’s instructions, abiding by any conditions or limitations advised by the suspension kit manufacturer
and include a written statement (to be retained by the vehicle owner) of the suitability of the suspension lift kit for the make/model/variant of the vehicle
being modified whether or not installed in combination with the permissible tyre diameter increase.
∞ Tyres up to 50mm larger in diameter than that specified by the vehicle manufacturer may be fitted to an off-road type 4WD provided:
- When in the straight ahead position, the wheels and tyres do not project beyond the extreme width of the mudguards when viewed from above
- The tyres do not foul the bodywork, braking system or any suspension or steering component under any combination of suspension and steering movement.
"
If you look at the underlined bit, this is the crux of the situation which makes it almost impossible to achieve Option 1, unless the manufacturers have done the testing at the 50mm tyre increase for your make/model.
With that said anything above this needs to be VASS certified. Now i'm not coming at this with any sort of complaining attitude that I can't get what I want or the cost is too high as you're suggesting. I've paid ridiculous 1000s for my jeep so far, money isn't an issue. I am exploring the ability to get the 75mm lift legally as per Option 1 of VSI-8/VSB 13.3.1 and whether anyone has been able to achieve it as the requirements are completely lumped on the suspension kit manufacturers.
I am also pointing out that your description of the requirements are the ones prior to the revision of the VSB and now there is the further stipulation as I have outlined above.