Help Me Fine Tune My Suspension

[ShredAZ]

Hey all. With a few years of wheeling on my new (to me) Rubicon, I'm ready to start fine tuning the suspension.
I've researched this topic to death and am now seeking advice on my specific application. Any and all advice through this process would be huge! You will be rewarded with pics

Intended Use:
My jeep is not a rock crawler, but I love to push it to it's limits. My build is leaning more towards an overland rig. 75% of the time, it'll see fire roads with the occasional obstacle detour.
I'm currently running 33's (load E tires at 24 PSI; this is another problem on my radar) and would like to net total lift at around 4".
My main goals with this project are as follows:

1. Smooth out harshness and increase small bump compliance (IE I don't want washboard rattling the fillings out of my teeth)
2. Remove the damn tcase drop
3. Keep it on the cheap; reuse what I can. Scrap what I can't.

Current Setup:
The Jeep was purchased with an equipped Fabtech 4" Basic Lift (all suspension with a tcase drop).
Fabtech wouldn't have been my first choice of lift, but it certainly isn't my last. The lift seems well built, and despite my heavy ass front and rear bumpers, there is no measured sag.
I measured the control arms last night. Eye-to-eye, they are around 15.75" - 16" in length which (to my understanding) is stock length. This is my first concern. I understand as the Jeep lifts in height, generally speaking, the control arms should get longer as to prevent some of perceived harshness or even binding (and also center the axles). The lower control arms are also equipped with greasable poly bushings which I would love to swap out for rubber.

I've already landed on the shocks I want. Between the new OME's, 5100's, and Rancho, I've landed of the RS5000X. A ton of members I trust and respect preach heavily to their comfort. I also can't complain about the price.

With that being said, here are a few of the options I'm considering. Remember, comfort is what I'm seeking.

Option 1:

• Replace 4" Fabtech lift springs with 3" springs (most likely BDS)
• Add 1" - 1.25" Body Lift
• Add 1" MML
• If vibes are non existent at that height, I would remove the t-case drop and be done with it
• Reuse Fabtech lower control arms and replace poly bushing w/ rubber

Option 2:

• Keep the Fabtech lift installed
• Install Rancho RS5000X shocks
• Equip DC shaft and upper adjustable control arms
• Remove tcase drop
• Replace lower control arm poly bushings w/ rubber

Option 3:

• Scrap it and start fresh. There are better options you aren't considering. Something like the DPG OME Ultimate Kit.

 

[Chris]

You biggest issue with smoothness and harshness will be running E load tires. You should be running C (or D at the most) load rated tires if you want the best ride. Take it from someone who has run both, the E load tires ride like complete crap compared to a C or D.

In addition to that, run them at 26 psi and you'll think your vehicle has totally been transformed (that's what most of us run ours at on-road).

The Fabtech lift is just okay. The worst part of it (and most lifts) is the shocks. Replace them with Rancho RS5000X shocks for the best ride quality you'll find (this is coming from someone who has run almost every off the shelf shock you can run, including the Bilstein 5100s).

As far as control arm lengths, don't be too concerned about that. I have a 4" suspension lift with 1" body lift, and my lower control arms are at stock length believe it or not. This is actually very normal. It's the upper arms (just in the rear) that will change dramatically in length, to compensate for the raised pinion angle.

If there is enough room in terms of clearance, the lower arms can be adjusted outwards. However, the issue with that is that you may run into other issues. For instance, if you move the rear axle back further, your bump stops can become off center, your rear diff can contact your fuel tank, things can bind up with the track bar, etc. You shouldn't be concerned with the actual lengths of the control arms, you should be concerned with how everything works together, whether things are aligned or not (i.e. bump stops), etc. Worrying about actual numbers is senseless.

With option 1, If you have a 4" lift on a TJ, you will NOT be able to remove the transfer case drop. You will get vibrations at 4", guaranteed. Unless you either have a SYE and CV driveshaft combo, or you have an LJ, in which case the longer wheel base lets you get away with a lot more than it would on a TJ. Even with the MML, 4" is still a lot of lift.

Option 2 is the best bet. The Fabtech springs are fine, it's the shocks that suck. Pair the springs with Rancho RS5000X shocks, add a SYE and CV driveshaft, replace the poly bushings with rubber (you'll need adjustable rear upper arms to change the pinion angle), and you'll be good to go.

Add a 1" body lift and 1" MML down the road if you want as well.

And I'll say it again... get rid of those E load tires. Those things aren't meant for a TJ, that's for sure!

 

[ShredAZ]

And I'll say it again... get rid of those E load tires. Those things aren't meant for a TJ, that's for sure!

GREAT advice all around! This is on my list, but not till I run down the current tires. I'm running them at 24 PSI full time. It helped a lot, but the sidewalls just do not give as much as I want.

You think I'll still need the drop if I convert to 3" suspension, 1" BL, 1" MML? That's the only reason I would consider Option 1. That and the suspension geometry is closer to stock.

 

[Chris]

GREAT advice all around! This is on my list, but not till I run down the current tires. I'm running them at 24 PSI full time. It helped a lot, but the sidewalls just do not give as much as I want.

You think I'll still need the drop if I convert to 3" suspension, 1" BL, 1" MML? That's the only reason I would consider Option 1. That and the suspension geometry is closer to stock.

24 psi will definitely help with the E load tires.

I didn't believe all the hype about C or D load tires until I made the switch. All I can tell you is that it's night and day. It totally transforms the way the Jeep rides. I no longer feel all the bumps and imperfections in the rode. It's never going to ride as good as our Honda Odyssey or something, but it rides really, really good for a Jeep!

With 3" of lift, that MML may or may not get rid of the vibrations. I'm betting it won't entirely, but I could be wrong. I think it's worth trying out for sure, but expect the worst. I will say that it can vary from vehicle to vehicle. I've seen some TJs with 2.5" of lift that needed a lot more TC drop than others with the same amount of lift, so there are variances. You may get lucky!

Still, I'd definitely add a SYE / Double Cardan / CV driveshaft to your future plans (which I'm sure you intend to) down the road.

 

[jjvw]

If the goal is to refine the suspension, the you absolutely will want a double cardan rear drive shaft and good adjustable control arms. This will allow you to remove the t case drop and allow the suspension to move without bringing the axle into bind. If you want to go further, you can raise the t case skid higher than stock.

The single best thing you can do is learn how to correctly extend the bump stops. Doing this will show you nearly everything you need to know in order to get the most out of your suspension. When you do this, you may see why the FabTech arms aren't doing you any favors.

A front Antirock would also be very helpful in making your Jeep very capable in a wide variety of terrain.

 

[derekmac]

Every Jeep seems to be a bit different when it comes to lift heights and vibrations.

Mines (05 Rubi) lifted 3" and I have no t-case drop and no driveline vibs. When my body lift gets here I'll also be installing an MML since I have one sitting on a shelf, and I do plan on eventually doing a tummy tuck.

 

[bobthetj03]

Since you have a Rubi, you only need a double cardan rear drive shaft and adjustable rear upper arms,and you could lose that TC drop. If you plan on doing a tummy tuck down the road, then I'd say Option 1.

 

[ac_]

I think all of the advice given here is tops, I can't really add anything other than I agree.

Just to note, I don't run a body lift nor a MML. And I would not run a 4inch lift without and SYE especially on a manual trans.

I think the body lift and MML are options you can give or take, but the SYE is a must in my opinion.

My TJ is 98 4inch Currie lift, Rancho shocks, and I believe C rated tires, but i need to double check that for sure, and they are 33's.

Nothing wrong or bad with the body lift or MML, just not necessary for my build as I am not tummy tucking or rock crawling either. If your jeep is a stick shift, and you MML, it changes the geometry of the stick. Originally I dropped the transfer case and found it too hard to shift into 2nd, so I replaced the drop with a SYE, and put the transfer case back up to the frame. No vibrations so far. And it shifts like stock again.

I imagine you don't encounter the same issues with an automatic.

 

[Mike_H]

I'd vote option one too, as a tummy tuck will make a WORLD of difference in the breakover height of your jeep. I seem to get hung up on mine on almost every obstacle I encounter. It drives me absolutely CRAZY and cost be damned, I'm fixing it this winter.

For your rig, to make it as capable as you can...

3" springs
Add a 1" Body Lift
Go with a DC driveshaft and adjustable arms.
Tummy Tuck and lift the gas tank

I'm running nearly the same set-up (only with 2" springs) and not tucked yet. I have had no trouble keeping up with guys on 35's, aside from the aforementioned problem hanging up on the skidplate.

 

[ShredAZ]

Thank you everyone for the great advice!

After much deliberation, I'm actually leaning towards Option 3 now...
https://dpgoffroad.com/product/old-man-emu-ultimate-tjlj-wrangler-kit/

I honestly think this would be the perfect setup for the type of wheeling I do and beyond.
Maintains nearly stock geometry. I wouldn't need to equip a DC shaft. And it supposedly has one of the best rides.

I'll be able to sell the complete Fabtech lift to help subsidize the OME.

I did have one question:
I know the old Nitrocharger shocks were so well tuned for the TJ. The new "Sports" I've read mixed reviews on. Any first hand experience?

 

[ac_]

Thank you everyone for the great advice!

After much deliberation, I'm actually leaning towards Option 3 now...
https://dpgoffroad.com/product/old-man-emu-ultimate-tjlj-wrangler-kit/

I honestly think this would be the perfect setup for the type of wheeling I do and beyond.
Maintains nearly stock geometry. I wouldn't need to equip a DC shaft. And it supposedly has one of the best rides.

I'll be able to sell the complete Fabtech lift to help subsidize the OME.

I did have one question:
I know the old Nitrocharger shocks were so well tuned for the TJ. The new "Sports" I've read mixed reviews on. Any first hand experience?

Before I put my Currie lift on I ran the Nitro's and loved them with my OME but I went from 2 to 4 so I needed to replace the shocks and decided to go with the RanchoXs. This is the tough part. the Nitro's are definitely awesome, but are the worth the extra cost? That is debatable. You can get a set of Ranchos for 199 dollars where the Nitros were over 400. I don't think you will be disappointed either way.

I wish I could tell you one is better than the other but I ran the Nitros with the two inch but when I went to 4 I changed to Rancho so I am comparing apples to oranges. I will say I am not disappointed with the 200 dollar shocks.

 

[bobthetj03]

I've heard mention the Nitro Sports are stiffer than the first gen. I only have experience with the original Nitros, and now Rancho RS5000X shocks.

 

[jjvw]

I've heard mention the Nitro Sports are stiffer than the first gen. I only have experience with the original Nitros, and now Rancho RS5000X shocks.

Same, all around. The 5000x feels like what I remember the old OME shocks to be.

I think at this point in time, the only unique aspect of the OME shocks are the compressed and extended lengths. Compared to other options, you can fit more travel into less space if you are willing to measure and refine your suspension.

 

[ac_]

I actually feel the Rranchos are stiffer than the new Nitros, but my ranchos are brand new and may soften a little.

 

[ShredAZ]

I actually feel the Rranchos are stiffer than the new Nitros, but my ranchos are brand new and may soften a little.

That's good to know! Did you run the new "Sports" or the old Nitros?

I would really love to go through Dirk at DPG. I spoke with him today, and he instilled so much confidence in his ability to truly dial my ride using all OME.

 

[ac_]

That's good to know! Did you run the new "Sports" or the old Nitros?

I would really love to go through Dirk at DPG. I spoke with him today, and he instilled so much confidence in his ability to truly dial my ride using all OME.

He has a great reputation. I didn't go through him, but I have never heard anything bad about him.

I have the new Nitro's I bought them around Christmas time.

 

[Hawkeye]

Man I would love to hear from someone who has run both of those shocks. I currently have the Nitros. Replaced the blown out shocks that were on it when I bought the jeep so I dont have anything to compare them to. I have Curry 4in coils and no hardtop so the Jeep is light. Most of the time I think they ride good however sometimes they seem to not keep up and let the jeep rock forward and backward. Not sure if that's the spring rates vs the shocks or what. Not too often it happens but it does.

 

[ac_]

Man I would love to hear from someone who has run both of those shocks. I currently have the Nitros. Replaced the blown out shocks that were on it when I bought the jeep so I dont have anything to compare them to. I have Curry 4in coils and no hardtop so the Jeep is light. Most of the time I think they ride good however sometimes they seem to not keep up and let the jeep rock forward and backward. Not sure if that's the spring rates vs the shocks or what. Not too often it happens but it does.

I have the same set up, but mine feels more like it rocks from side to side more than front to back. Although I still need to dial mine in better. I have having slight steering issues and my lift is new so I need to realign it after I put some more miles on it. I am also in the middle of a Ford 8.8 rear end swap so it is dry docked for a bit.

 

[Hawkeye]

@ac_ I've had mine on for a couple of months now and I do think they got better after driving on them a little bit. Definitley like to hear how yours turn out once you get the axle put in.

 

[ShredAZ]

Hey all -
New question. I'm sourcing a set of OE lower control arms. I have two options:

1. Buy a used set with 85k miles on 'em for $20
2. Buy a whole new Crown set for $200

I'm leaning towards #1 just due to cost. My question is, how much life should I expect from the OE bushings? Typically speaking, should I be looking to replace them around 90k-100k regardless or do they last longer than that?