Help with wheel choice for manual locking hub kit

starkey480

starkey480

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So I have my Yukon 5X4.5 manual locking hub kit coming in tomorrow. For now I will use my existing wheels which are 4” backspacing 15X8 on 33X12.5 tires. The small hub kit pushes the front wheels out .75” inches on each side. This will give me 3.25” of effective backspacing in the front. Has anyone run the small hub kit and can report how their backspacing handled with it? Or has anyone run wheels with that little backspacing and can report how it felt?

I will probably get new wheels when I go to 35s for my next set of tires. I’m thinking 4.5” backspaced wheels will work nicely and give me 3.75” with the hub kit. I can always use a .75” spacer in the rear. If I ever outboard the rear shocks and need more room. I’m open to different ideas though!
 
I have the 5x5.5 hubs so I cannot help.

@mrblaine has used/worked with the small hub kit. I do not recall him or anyone else having any issues with standard backspace wheels and that kit but I won't speak for them.

I could be completely wrong, but I do not believe that the small hub kit changes the "effective backspacing" in all aspects. The wheels will still have the same or nearly the same spatial relationship with the wheel bearings, rotors, calipers, etc. There will, however, be more clearance between tire and control arm at full steering lock so I guess it changes "effective" backspace in that regard.

IIRC, @mrblaine actually prefers the wider track in front, but he has specific reasons why and how he uses that to his advantage unrelated to handling.
 
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starkey480 said:
So I have my Yukon 5X4.5 manual locking hub kit coming in tomorrow. For now I will use my existing wheels which are 4” backspacing 15X8 on 33X12.5 tires. The small hub kit pushes the front wheels out .75” inches on each side. This will give me 3.25” of effective backspacing in the front. Has anyone run the small hub kit and can report how their backspacing handled with it? Or has anyone run wheels with that little backspacing and can report how it felt?

I will probably get new wheels when I go to 35s for my next set of tires. I’m thinking 4.5” backspaced wheels will work nicely and give me 3.75” with the hub kit. I can always use a .75” spacer in the rear. If I ever outboard the rear shocks and need more room. I’m open to different ideas though!
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I installed the Warn version of that kit onto my previous TJ and don't recall the backspacing making a significant difference in how it steered. The less the backspacing the more the scrub radius of course but it wasn't really something I remember as being noticeable.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
I installed the Warn version of that kit onto my previous TJ and don't recall the backspacing making a significant difference in how it steered. The less the backspacing the more the scrub radius of course but it wasn't really something I remember as being noticeable.
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And you had 3.75 on your old TJ correct?
 
I'm not so sure that you will want backspacing any greater than 4.0" after your manual hub install. I seriously doubt that you will want 4.5" backspacing or that you will want spacers to "equalize" the track.

My guess is that you will discover that the wheels you have now with 4" backspacing are perfect
 
Mr. Bills said:
I have the 5x5.5 hubs so I cannot help.

@mrblaine has used/worked with the small hub kit. I do not recall him or anyone else having any issues with standard backspace wheels and that kit but I won't speak for them.

I could be completely wrong, but I do not believe that the small hub kit changes the "effective backspacing" at all. The wheels will still have the same or nearly the same spatial relationship with the wheel bearings, rotors, calipers, etc. There will, however, be more clearance between tire and control arm at full steering lock.

IIRC, @mrblaine actually prefers the wider track in front.
Click to expand...
Small hub kit adds about 7/8" or more per side effectively reducing the backspacing by that amount.
I do not prefer a wider track for the sake of a wider track, I prefer a wide enough track to wind up with about 3.75"-4" of backspacing with 35's.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
I installed the Warn version of that kit onto my previous TJ and don't recall the backspacing making a significant difference in how it steered. The less the backspacing the more the scrub radius of course but it wasn't really something I remember as being noticeable.
Click to expand...
Yukon has changed the flange thickness for both the small and large hub conversions. That does not change the larger one's backspacing but it does for the smaller one. I'd have to measure to get it exact, but it is around 7/8" when you get the flange for the hub lock in there.
 
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mrblaine said:
Yukon has changed the flange thickness for both the small and large hub conversions. That does not change the larger one's backspacing but it does for the smaller one. I'd have to measure to get it exact, but it is around 7/8" when you get the flange for the hub lock in there.
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Sounds like I should aim for a wheel between 4.25 and 4.75 which would yield roughly 3.5 to 4.0 effective backspacing.
@Mr. Bills even though the wheel has same relationship to bearings and rotor I think it will still put slightly more leverage on ball joints as well as change scrub radius. I have a very rough understanding of scrub radius but would love if someone could enlighten me on how scrub radius translates into the real world for Jeeps on and offroad.
 
I'm just suggesting that you run what you have until you determine whether you really need to change.

I might be a bit more confident in my suggestion if you were running 4.25" backspacing now rather than 4.0", but something just doesn't seem right about needing 15" wheels with 4.5 or 4.75" backspacing. The first clue is that there aren't [m]any 15" wheels with the 5x4.5 lug pattern and that backspacing on the market in combination with the almost total absence of posts from people who installed 5x4.5 manual hubs who then had to special order wheels. One of the selling points of the 5x4.5 kit is not having to buy new wheels.

BTW, I looked at both the 5x4.5 and the 5x5.5 manual hub kits . In the end I was able to get the 5x5.5 kit at a screaming good price. Had I been able to buy the 5x4.5 kit for $993 as you did that would have been the kit I purchased and I would probably have run those hubs with my existing 16x8 wheels with 4.0" backspacing and no spacers in the rear. Maybe I would have shortened the life of my wheel bearings or ball joints and maybe not. Wheel bearings and ball joints are a lot cheaper than a set of new wheels.
 
Mr. Bills said:
I'm just suggesting that you run what you have until you determine whether you really need to change.

I might be a bit more confident in my suggestion if you were running 4.25" backspacing now rather than 4.0", but something just doesn't seem right about needing 15" wheels with 4.5 or 4.75" backspacing. The first clue is that there aren't [m]any 15" wheels with the 5x4.5 lug pattern and that backspacing on the market in combination with the almost total absence of posts from people who installed 5x4.5 manual hubs who then had to special order wheels. One of the selling points of the 5x4.5 kit is not having to buy new wheels.

BTW, I looked at both the 5x4.5 and the 5x5.5 manual hub kits . In the end I was able to get the 5x5.5 kit at a screaming good price. Had I been able to buy the 5x4.5 kit for $993 as you did that would have been the kit I purchased and I would probably have run those hubs with my existing 16x8 wheels with 4.0" backspacing and no spacers in the rear. Maybe I would have shortened the life of my wheel bearings or ball joints and maybe not. Wheel bearings and ball joints are a lot cheaper than a set of new wheels.
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Very true and excellent points. I was planning to stick with my current wheels for a while regardless. Hub kit aside though I was planning on upgrading from steel wheels to alloy wheels when I go to 35s Anyways. So this is more of research for the future. I think I’m more concerned about scrub radius and handling than I am ball joints. Just did some learning on it and the more positive the scrub radius is (less backspacing) the more the Jeep will wander. This is because the force of friction will be pushing the toe out more when scrub radius is too positive. @mrblaine this may be a noob question but while I have my current wheels should I set my toe slightly more in than normal to combat the increased scrub radius and add stability?
 
starkey480 said:
Very true and excellent points. I was planning to stick with my current wheels for a while regardless. Hub kit aside though I was planning on upgrading from steel wheels to alloy wheels when I go to 35s Anyways. So this is more of research for the future. I think I’m more concerned about scrub radius and handling than I am ball joints. Just did some learning on it and the more positive the scrub radius is (less backspacing) the more the Jeep will wander. This is because the force of friction will be pushing the toe out more when scrub radius is too positive. @mrblaine this may be a noob question but while I have my current wheels should I set my toe slightly more in than normal to combat the increased scrub radius and add stability?
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Just play with it some and see what it does that you like and keep that.
 
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Found out mamba makes more than just the mr1x with lots of backspace. They have this 15x8 wheel with 5” backspace. That would go perfectly with hub kit resulting in 4 1/8” backspace in front and then I could just run a 1” spacer in the rear.
AC6C0023-C492-4E4B-92C2-A21208A165E0.png
 
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starkey480 said:
Another update on this. I finally got the hub kit installed and 4” backspaced wheels work great. Zero decrease in handling. No need for new wheels as @Mr. Bills predicted :)
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Do you have standard brakes up front or the BBK kit? I just got in my kit, opted for the larger 5.5" kit, and Super 8.8 for the back. Changing from 33" to 35", but going to 17" Raceline beadlock with 4.5" backspace. Still have plenty of clearance?
 
motomick76 said:
Do you have standard brakes up front or the BBK kit? I just got in my kit, opted for the larger 5.5" kit, and Super 8.8 for the back. Changing from 33" to 35", but going to 17" Raceline beadlock with 4.5" backspace. Still have plenty of clearance?
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The 5.5” kit won’t change your track width at all. I have standard brakes and 33s. With 4.5” backspacing and 35s you may have to add some washers to your steering stops but other than that should be fine!
 
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