How Can We Identify a Good Off Road Shop?

I agree with all above.....
Word of mouth works well over here..... if your a member of a Jeep club or can access a Jeep club member and ask them who they would and wouldn't use.
Jeep people the world over are not shy about coming forward if they have good or bad experiances
 
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First, you have to find out what the client's needs and desires are with regard to where he wishes to spend his time offroad or if at all.

After that, you discuss tire size. Once tire size is settled on, then the details of what it takes to run that tire size for what he wants to do come into the discussion and a build plan is laid out either all at one or more typically in stages with the key goal being to not go backwards in any aspect of the build.

Being able to read a client gets tricky. Over the years I've come to learn that there are some like Chris who are just modification collectors and at the other end are those like myself who started wheeling on stock tires, when it wouldn't go where I wanted, I took it home, built it some, took it back and kept after it until it did what I needed.

The collectors are tricky. I had one in particular who asked me what to do next. Where are you going? Mostly Big Bear, some day the Rubicon, local mild stuff. I told him he didn't need a thing and his rig was set up perfectly for all of that and then some. He tells me, alright, what if I want to go to Johnson Valley? Well, you're gonna need some armor, lighter bumpers, lose the swingout, and get some better rock sliders. Dial in the shocks and you should be good.

He has me do all of that and over the course of a year I got to know him and his wheeling style and there isn't a chance in hell he is ever going to JV. That part of the conversation was just to get me to tell him what to buy and have installed.
X2 on you approach, when I bought my jeep it was bone stock, after hanging out here for bit and some research I asked Jerry Bransford for a recommendation on a reputable shop. The one he sent me to asked all the questions you mentioned and we went from that point. After wheeling for it a year I may be considering some changes but that is to be expected.
 
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There's only a couple guys I have and would bring my stuff to in the 20 years I've been wheeling. Those guys I have got to know first, made a relationship with, and know the type of work they specialize in. Blaine is one of those, if I wasn't ever able to work on my own. I've seen enough of his work and know of his particular nature. Another is a local gear guy that is out of business, unfortunately.

I do, however, have a big issue trusting others with any job that I can do or learn myself. This includes everything: autos, home, work. It's annoying actually, and I would have a lot more free time. LOL.

Get to know the guys at the shop, you'll know if you want to have work done by them or not. Especially if they listen to your wants and can gauge your goals well.



I remember scraping all my extra money for each mod when I first started, so I understand this when talking to guys with shocks. There's always better and best, but a guy who just lifted his rig won't need any of that. He needs seat time, not to spend $6k on a suspension.

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Haha... I won't dispute that one bit Blaine. I am indeed a "modification collector".

Well said... I actually laughed out loud when I read that :risas3:
Understand the intent is only informative not judgmental. I have a good friend with a Black TJ Unlimited. It only goes offroad to run bunny trails and it is with only a few small changes built well enough to run JV consistently. I know this and have no issue helping him add to his collection from time to time.

The opposite end of that spectrum is the one we just finished who we will be going with to JV. I've wheeled with him for years and he finally got to a place to build his ultimate version of a rig for JV and there was nothing done that takes away from that at all and the only things that were done are strictly to make that area more fun to play in.
 
Those guys I have got to know first, made a relationship with, and know the type of work they specialize in. Blaine is one of those, if I wasn't ever able to work on my own. I've seen enough of his work and know of his particular nature.
That's awful kind of you. I appreciate it.
 
A good shop can usually take what you think you want , and help you get it done the way it needs done .

All in all , they know more than you and I, way more . They may not say it , but they do.



They know the Jeep's to buy and the ones to avoid .

They typically do drive shaft work in house .

They have a shop full of Jeeps , not side x sides , fancy trucks and a Honda Accord.

They stay covered up.

They turn down work they aren't comfortable with .

If they are good , you will hear about it locally , and why .

At the same time , don't take one bad comment as death on a shop ...some people are idiots and don't listen to what the good shops say , and consequently get bad results...and always blame the shop.

They drive Jeeps and similar machines.
 
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Absolutely zero shops here that I think I would trust my Jeep with. It's quite unfortunate but I've even experienced some bad "word of mouth" recommendations too. I was hoping to find some golden rules within this post but a lot of what has been said is true. My woman can tell when I start fishing because I start asking questions she knows that I know a substantial amount about. "Baiting" may be rude but it can definitely tell you what you need to know about another person and their integrity.....

As for mod collecting - isn't it just a desire to replace parts with something better and never have to fix it again or the basic search for ways to make your rig bullet proof even if the terrain you're on isn't going to test the real abilities of your modified hardware? A couple of guy stereotypes going on - "better to have and not need" and the fact that guys always have to try out their engineering skills when they aren't happy with the original idea........
 
Absolutely zero shops here that I think I would trust my Jeep with. It's quite unfortunate but I've even experienced some bad "word of mouth" recommendations too. I was hoping to find some golden rules within this post but a lot of what has been said is true. My woman can tell when I start fishing because I start asking questions she knows that I know a substantial amount about. "Baiting" may be rude but it can definitely tell you what you need to know about another person and their integrity.....

You have to be careful with baiting. I do it as a lifestyle and a version of it to test and verify credibility and integrity. If I see a blatantly wrong idea, concept, or statement from an individual or company, that nullifies just about anything else about them and I tend to let that be a very broad brush that I use to paint them with. It is not always a good way to go through life. If we do business together for a long time and you screw me over once, I tend to walk away regardless of how much we have invested in each other. Don't be that way.

As for mod collecting - isn't it just a desire to replace parts with something better and never have to fix it again or the basic search for ways to make your rig bullet proof even if the terrain you're on isn't going to test the real abilities of your modified hardware? A couple of guy stereotypes going on - "better to have and not need" and the fact that guys always have to try out their engineering skills when they aren't happy with the original idea........

I guess you can view it that way. I suspect that will be from a perspective from one without the intimate knowledge and desire to be elegant. I prefer to build exactly what is needed, nothing that isn't and make that work as well as I possibly can.

I continually fight the "bigger is better" mentality spawned by the better to have it and not need it folks. If I let you convince me and yourself that we should follow that, you will wind up with Dana 60's for 35's. Do you really want to be that guy?
 
"Mod collecting" doesn't bother me. It's no different than a hot rod guy spending $50k having a grand touring Camaro built, and never taking it to the track. Be happy with what you do, and do what makes you happy. :D
 
"Mod collecting" doesn't bother me. It's no different than a hot rod guy spending $50k having a grand touring Camaro built, and never taking it to the track. Be happy with what you do, and do what makes you happy. :D
I'm not bothered by it at all. Just know that it is being done and deal with it. I will however, pause to question the sense of it sometimes. Like the one we built right before this one. Does a TJ Unlimited really need Currie VXR's with a full float rear and RCV fronts?
 
"Mod collecting" doesn't bother me. It's no different than a hot rod guy spending $50k having a grand touring Camaro built, and never taking it to the track. Be happy with what you do, and do what makes you happy. :D

It gets annoying when other "Jeepers" taint the community with their light bars, snorkels, angry grills, and false information. I can tolerate the light bars, snorkels, and angry eyes, but when the false information and suggestions start rolling in, yeah, I have a problem with that.
 
Does a TJ Unlimited really need Currie VXR's with a full float rear and RCV fronts?

I know for me the real motivation towards the VXR rear was the load bolt and Super 60 R&P (although iirc that is available on the standard model also) on the already HP design after having seen some that had failed. I think that may go back to where you wheel as we can have some shock loading as you need to occasionally paddle through dirt, sand, and snow.
 
I think the best way to tell if the shop is worth their salt is to know the answers to the questions you ask at the beginning...I guess you can call it baiting. For instance, if I wanted to have a lift installed, I would ask how they set bumpstops...knowing full well how it should be done. If their answer isn't a reasonable facsimile of what I have in my mind, then generally walk. I'm of the mindset that most people are good, and if they don't do it the way I think they should, its not because they are shysters, but more because they don't know. You can be taught how to do something and not know "why" you're doing it. If I get the right vib during the conversation, I'll usually talk about my way of thinking, and see if they can present a reasonable argument against it or "see the light" and come around.

I feel for the people who are not mechanically inclined. There are so many ignorant people, both on the selling end and the buying end, that there is a LOT of money spend on unnecessary repairs and modifications.
 
I am happy with lockouts, Atlas, e-lockers, Dana 44's front and rear, 4" of lift, 33-35" tires, a good winch and a little extra gas. Air conditions, cruise control and stroker motors are bonuses! My problem is I don't know TJ modifications well enough to know how to get everything to clear and I don't have the funds to buy and try and if I don't like it, try it again. I also believe that jeeps are built, not bought. I do like to tinker and don't mind a challenge, but failures get expensive and I like the research.

as a side note: It is funny to listen to people on here who have never tried a product but know all about it...
 
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I feel for the people who are not mechanically inclined. There are so many ignorant people, both on the selling end and the buying end, that there is a LOT of money spend on unnecessary repairs and modifications.

To add to the difficulty, it seems like many poorly implemented repairs or modifications are easily dismissed as "a Jeep thing". We often see it here when someone says they know their lifted Jeep will never handle well or won't be comfortable or can't go faster than 55mph... The culture simply accepts poor performance and discomfort as part of the rugged tough guy experience. A few even make a point of making their Jeeps irritating to be in and around. This is a problem both with the shops and the customers.
 
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To add to the difficulty, it seems like many poorly implemented repairs or modifications are easily dismissed as "a Jeep thing". We often see it here when someone says they know their lifted Jeep will never handle well or won't be comfortable or can't go faster than 55mph... The culture simply accepts poor performance and discomfort as part of the rugged tough guy experience. A few even make a point of making their Jeeps irritating to be in and around. This is a problem both with the shops and the customers.


I think that mentality is a hold over from the old leaf-sprung rides of the CJ. How do you get lift with a leaf spring? increase the arch and rate...thus creating a buckboard.

Speaking of CJ's...How is your Dad coming along? I sub'ed his post for daily emails, but haven't seen anything lately
 
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Speaking of CJ's...How is your Dad coming along? I sub'ed his post for daily emails, but haven't seen anything lately

He just had his second hip replaced a few days ago. Hopefully when the pain meds taper off and he gets bored during recovery he'll write some more 80's-90's Midwest off-road history. He's trying to retrace the chronology of trial and error, so the recent rebuilding will be a while.
 
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I think that mentality is a hold over from the old leaf-sprung rides of the CJ. How do you get lift with a leaf spring? increase the arch and rate...thus creating a buckboard.

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There is a lot to that. When my dad and I talk about how we arrived at what we have done, we have very different approaches to similar problems. The ability to cycle the suspension on leafs is difficult compared to links and coils. There appears to be more guessing and trial and error on what we might think of as fairly simple things like setting the pinions and determining travels.

The issue of axle wrap is something we often don't need to think about. But that was a catastrophic issue on his CJ5 in Moab 20 years ago which is a guiding consideration in the current rebuild.

Then there is the existence of the internet. It was a different world all around where everything he knew back then was from the people around him and from magazines. The builds were different. Most things needed to be fabricated or adapted from other vehicles. Today, we have much more exposure to a wider variety of ideas and we get it significantly faster. We have more kits that are supposed to do the thinking for us. For better or worse, the internet really changed our expectations of and relationships to our projects.
 
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as a side note: It is funny to listen to people on here who have never tried a product but know all about it...

That is a double edged sword. I don't need to eat a cat shit sandwich to know I'm not going to like and its suitability as a food product is ill founded and entirely incorrect. In the same vein, I have built enough steering and suspension to pretty much tell how something is going to work so no, I don't need to have any experience to know that Rugged Ridge inverted T is going to handle and drive like crap.

The same is true for brakes, post up something and I'll be able to tell how it works or at least have a better than fair chance of doing so.

I agree with you in general though but not everything has to be experienced to know it is bad or good for that matter.