How Can We Identify a Good Off Road Shop?

Blaine, you are one of the few exceptions, you have the experience to know what works and doesn't, but I have dealt with many people who drive an SUV and think they know about jeeps and how unreliable they are because a buddy's cousin's friend was always working on his... (87 wrangler 2.5 with 4.11's and 35's) as an example. I think that there are some ingenious designs for some products out there and that you may even have tried them and know if they work or not. I also think there is some real crap products out there too. I know that I am working on the plans for my LJ build, and I have been talking with Blackjack about what mods were done with his jeep, I liked what I saw in the Nth short arm modifications he did which matches the kind of use I am planning for the LJ. I also like a lot of things that you have done on rigs you have built. I feel that I am fairly good at analyzing and recognizing things that work and some that do not. I hope you take this as the compliment it is meant to be. Your experience is a valuable asset to the forums and to people like me who need to be schooled. My biggest failing right now is that my welding skills have fallen behind what they should be. There are several mods that I want to do that you have proven sucessful, one being outboarding shocks, but I suck at vertical and overhead mig... that is why it maybe a while before I take that project on. Tim
 
Some thoughts:

1. Asking questions for which one already knows the answers isn't necessarily "baiting," at least in the sense of a set-up. The practice establishes a record and/or a common understanding and eliminates assumptions. It also helps quickly determine whether the other person is easy or difficult, straightforward or cagey, and yes, whether or not they know the difference between bovine excrement and shoe polish. Legitimate motives all.

2. There are situations where already knowing the answer to the question being posed is imperative. Just ask Marcia Clark how asking O.J. to put on that bloody glove without already knowing whether it would fit worked out for her.
 
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Blaine, you are one of the few exceptions, you have the experience to know what works and doesn't, but I have dealt with many people who drive an SUV and think they know about jeeps and how unreliable they are because a buddy's cousin's friend was always working on his... (87 wrangler 2.5 with 4.11's and 35's) as an example. I think that there are some ingenious designs for some products out there and that you may even have tried them and know if they work or not. I also think there is some real crap products out there too. I know that I am working on the plans for my LJ build, and I have been talking with Blackjack about what mods were done with his jeep, I liked what I saw in the Nth short arm modifications he did which matches the kind of use I am planning for the LJ. I also like a lot of things that you have done on rigs you have built. I feel that I am fairly good at analyzing and recognizing things that work and some that do not. I hope you take this as the compliment it is meant to be. Your experience is a valuable asset to the forums and to people like me who need to be schooled. My biggest failing right now is that my welding skills have fallen behind what they should be. There are several mods that I want to do that you have proven sucessful, one being outboarding shocks, but I suck at vertical and overhead mig... that is why it maybe a while before I take that project on. Tim
I appreciate the confidence in my skills. The welding will take you about an hour to get back into the swing of with a bit of earnest practice and if you want to do some test pics and post them up, we can walk you through whatever you need to get it done. I suck at vertical and overhead as well. I have a small bag of tricks that I use to help. It doesn't need to be nearly as good as you think it does. Amateurs like myself and most others run so much weld that only about 20% of it needs to be good to stick something together.

I built a motorized tire carrier with two linear actuators mounted at a 1-3 motion ratio to lift a 37" tire. That means the lift point is only 1/3 of the distance away from the pivot so the leverage is very high against the actuator. We were trying to dial in the exact length so the stroke of the actuator would set it on the tub and then lift it exactly as high as needed. I tacked the mount tabs in place with exactly 3 small tacks per tab and then we would test, cut, move, re-tack and test again. None of the tack welds broke during any of the lifting. In fact if it weren't for the vibration and abuse I expected, they would have held forever.
 
You have to be careful with baiting. I do it as a lifestyle and a version of it to test and verify credibility and integrity. If I see a blatantly wrong idea, concept, or statement from an individual or company, that nullifies just about anything else about them and I tend to let that be a very broad brush that I use to paint them with. It is not always a good way to go through life. If we do business together for a long time and you screw me over once, I tend to walk away regardless of how much we have invested in each other. Don't be that way.



I guess you can view it that way. I suspect that will be from a perspective from one without the intimate knowledge and desire to be elegant. I prefer to build exactly what is needed, nothing that isn't and make that work as well as I possibly can.

I continually fight the "bigger is better" mentality spawned by the better to have it and not need it folks. If I let you convince me and yourself that we should follow that, you will wind up with Dana 60's for 35's. Do you really want to be that guy?


I definitely don't believe in the "rat race" but when I have to fix or replace something, I usually go overboard. I also have no desire to add mods that I will never use. To me , that's just a waste of cash.

As for the "baiting", it sounds like you and I have a similar agenda and belief system when it comes to that game. Yes, have this trait or characteristic is not a very positive one to have but it has served it's purpose and saved me a few times ;)
 
Is your Jeep shop full of cats?

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Some thoughts:

1. Asking questions for which one already knows the answers isn't necessarily "baiting," at least in the sense of a set-up. The practice establishes a record and/or a common understanding and eliminates assumptions. It also helps quickly determine whether the other person is easy or difficult, straightforward or cagey, and yes, whether or not they know the difference between bovine excrement and shoe polish. Legitimate motives all.

2. There are situations where already knowing the answer to the question being posed is imperative. Just ask Marcia Clark how asking O.J. to put on that bloody glove without already knowing whether it would fit worked out for her.

I agree with this completely. I've found that research, research, and more research on forums tends to get me pretty well ahead of the game and on the right track for what I want done. I've gone to shops in the area that are the "go-to" shop of the local Jeep clubs, and I've been less than impressed. It gets to the point where they provide such great customer service that they can do no wrong in the eyes of the clubs, regardless of how hacked or behind the times their process may be. By educating myself by asking a lot of questions that probably make me look very dumb on message boards such as this one, I prepare myself to do exactly as Mr. Bills said. I ask questions that I already know the "correct" answer to, and by using this method I've narrowed it down to just two people in the area that I trust with my Jeep. Neither are very fast, but since the Jeep is not my daily driver I just drop it on a Monday and pick it up whenever he is done with it.
 
In my area there is a well known axle shop known as "The Rear End Shop". They were good to me when my dana 35 grenaded. And no, I wasn't beating on it, it just seized up due to a pinion bearing disintegrating. I also knew that they know what they're talking about when they wouldn't warranty my dana 35 when I was on 35's.