How to clean your Jeep Wrangler TJ frame

I love my 350 in my boat. Easy to find, Easy to build, and there will NEVER be a parts shortage. I like it! In fact, I co-own a 12 passenger van with a bad transmission in it. over 250,000 miles, and the engine still runs well. 5.7L vortec. If I did a swap to a v8...I'd think VERY hard about using that motor and giving it a rebuild. Hard to beat the newest versions of the SBC with Fuel Injection and the Vortec heads.
 
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Love my V8 350 in my Yukon. Only two engines I want to own; the 4.0 and the 350. Good to see you back Wade. Start blowing that horn!
 
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Wade said:
Yeah, so I posted this over a year ago and then shortly thereafter disappeared from the forum.

I am not dead. ;-)so do you still have any use for that clog hog:cop:.

I am a musician and have been *very* busy rebuilding one of my expensive tubas for work. This turned into a nightmare of engineering screwups and construction nightmares caused by the guy who altered it from its original form to what it was when I purchased it in 2008. It has taken me about ten months of work and I am hoping to wrap that sucker up this next week. In the interim I have also fully rebuilt one other tuba and am ecstatic about how it came out. So this long-haul project ought to see me in fat boy heaven. (Fingers crossed...)

So in the ensuing months I have had time to consider where I am taking this TJ, and it looks like we are going to do a frame-off restoration to include new paint (different color). We have also tentatively settled on a Chevy 350 engine for many reasons, and yes, we have decided, so please don't tell me what a tragedy this will be. Don't piss in my Corn Flakes, PLEASE, guys! HAHAHA!!! This *is* what I want, and I have been researching and considering for quite some time, now. I have just about all the needed tools on hand and what I lack I can get pretty easily. No, I do not want an LS, or a 4.0L rebuild or even a 4.7L stroker. I want the 350 specifically. Thanks for respecting that.

Now I need to locate the specific block I want, which may take some time. Not sure when I will work my way around to the engine. I still might crap out and try to save my 4.0L, which I really love. But I think it has too much heat damage and probably internal rust, too.

Anyway, I am back again, after some time being AWOL.

See y'all around...

Wade
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In case anyone here is reading this thread for the first time, here is one I did about the tools I came up with. I hope this stuff helps someone save a bundle on a future application of Saf-T-Caps or the huge project of a full-on frame swap. Both will fix TJ frame issues, but if yours is not that far gone just yet then try what I did.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/homemade-frame-rail-cleaner.2871/#post-35191
 
Trident72 said:
So do you still have any use for that clog hog? Wanna sell it?
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Sorry for the late reply. I don't get to visit here much these days, unfortunately.

I use the Clog Hog a few times a year and *one* a actually used it for its intended purpose. That bad boy unclogged my bathroom sink drainpipe like a champ. The blockage was my wife's long hair, Lemon Go-Jo and various greases, and they do NOT play well in the tight bends of really old plumbing (1930s) so I was really lucky that the blockage was close enough for this fairly short tool. The company makes much more powerful ones that are longer, but they all have a wider head, too. I got this specifically for the TJ because it has the narrowest head and it would fit. As short as it may be for plumbing purposes, it is still twice the length of the TJ's shortie frame.

So no, I do not intend to sell it. It has a number of uses that make me feel like I need to keep it in the big, red, rolling toolbox where it lives.

Thanks, though. There is a link above (IIRC) so that you can get one, and they are not *that* expensive. And yeah, if you only want it to prep for an internal frame cleanup and coating then you probably COULD sell it here later. So maybe that would be a good idea for you: get a new one and then sell it here.

Good luck either way, and I am sorry I only today read your post.

Wade
 
While changing the oil in my Jeep, I decided to feel the inside of the frame rails to see if I can tell how bad/good my frame is. Well, I felt a decent amount of metal peeling off. I guess I need to knock this out sooner rather than later. Thank you for a great write-up. Now, on to my question. Where do the larger chunks come out? Do they have to make their way all the way out the ends of the frame rails? I have not checked the ends of the frame. Are they capped or open?
 
SOMD-JeepFan said:
While changing the oil in my Jeep, I decided to feel the inside of the frame rails to see if I can tell how bad/good my frame is. Well, I felt a decent amount of metal peeling off. I guess I need to knock this out sooner rather than later. Thank you for a great write-up. Now, on to my question. Where do the larger chunks come out? Do they have to make their way all the way out the ends of the frame rails? I have not checked the ends of the frame. Are they capped or open?
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Removing debris from inside the frame can be difficult due to limited access points (& capped ends), you've got to get it out through the holes. Most lose stuff will be found in the main frame rails between the control arm mounts because it’s the low point & the longest stretch, however you will also find debris at the very front and rear where the frame rails dead end at the cross members. Removal depends on what it is (dirt/mud, sand, pebbles, rust, nuts/bolts & other odd jeep parts and miscellaneous items that floated in while crossing water). Much of this can be washed out with a good flushing of running water, provided you have appropriate drain holes. Larger stuff (and especially stuff that doesn’t float like sand, rocks, pebbles…) is harder to get out, high pressure will help move it certain areas but you still have to figure out a way to get it out - I attach a small tube to the end of a shop vac to hose & stick it in the frame through the large round holes on the sides. In the case of rust that’s scaling on the inside walls that’s a different story because a lot of that will survive air and water so you’ve got to figure out a way to knock it off. There’s a thread here on the water powered drain cleaner that looks interesting though I haven’t had a reason to try that. If you’re looking for more brute force then I’d get a chain in there & knock the shit out of the walls. Once you get the scales off you can go back to air, water & vacuuming to get it out, a magnet may also be useful. Basically any method you can think of, just go Rambo on it & get it cleaned & sealed asap.

this thread has some ideas in it that I used:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/identifying-internal-frame-rust-with-endoscope.15044/
 
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Keep in mind that it cannot get in there if it is larger than the largest holes, UNLESS it is scaling metal, in which case it is already fragile due to heavy rust.

I have a medium-weak magnet that has a hole cast in the center. I tied some stout twine with my good Boy Scouts knots that won't come loose under a lot of pulling.

The magnet is of a size to fit through the large holes in the middle section by the LCA.

The following is complex, but if you are a stubborn a-hole like me you can get it done. (Heh, heh, heh...)

I used coat hanger wire and other stuff to fish the twine through that large hole and out the largest hole (the "diagonal" one near the rear bumper. I pulled a long loop of it around to where it would reach the rear LCA bolt access hole described above. I tied the magnet to both ends so that I had a loop with the magnet being the link between the two ends of the twine.

Then I fished the magnet into the LCA hole and slowly dragged it back and forth from where the string entered and exited the frame. I did not have much scaling except for the last six inches of frame rail, it turned out, so I only did on pass like this, down and back, pulling off any metal bits at both holes.

Then I did the same between the center sections. This is a massive PITA because of the skid plate bolts. Even if you remove them the "nutserts" stick up a good bit (like a half inch) and cause the magnet to foul to the point where you cannot get it in or out. I recommend doing this between the frame holes and the outer "nutsert" on each side, if you have the needed access holes. Between the outers and the inners you will not get much with a magnet. Same with the ends of the rails.

Anyway, then I did the front third as best I could.

To get the crap in the last six inches I used the Clog Hog tool to blow as much as I could from the end to the first large access hole that we use to help install frame tie-ins for bumpers. I used a magnet on a stick to fish all that mess out.

My rails were mostly filled with a dense, hard mud about a quarter inch deep, and lots of rounded pea gravel and small river stones. The use of a stiff wire to poke and drag around helped me break up the hardened dirt floor. The homemade air tool blasted much of that loose from the metal.

Importantly, the front tubular crossmember is just welded through some big holes. It is NOT sealed off at all on the top and bottom. Blow your dirty and crap FORWARDS only. Start at the very rear. Cut the holes I cut and use them. All that dirt will blow straight out the larger holes on the sides and out the front. Take off your bumper and you will be amazed at all the junk that blows straight out the front of the rails around that tubular crossmember.

Stones and gravel (and bottle caps, that missing 10mm socket, and a barbie head - seriously: WTF?) came to rest at the front wheel arch where I slowly picked out the ones I could not blow out a hole. Most of them came out a hole once I learned how to aim the air tool.

With most of the dirt broken up and then blown out, I used the pressure washer and the Clog Hog. That took care of just about all the rest.

There are still a few pieces of limestone and chert in my passenger rail that I could not get. The Eastwood Internal Frame Coating simply buried them, sealing them to the frame forever.

Keep in mind that if it is not 100% dry, like baked-in-an-oven dry, and you put the Eastwood stuff in - that water will be trapped forever in a bubble between the coating and METAL. I believe it will eventually burn a pinhole through the steel to escape, and that opens the door to rust forming BENEATH the frame coating, inside where you cannot see it. This is just a theory of mine, but I think the Eastwood guys would approve of it if I chatted with them about the product, which they very seriously warn you from applying until the frame is fully dry inside.

I did not do this correctly and believe I may have trapped water in my frame.

My report on how this destroyed my frame will probably be posted here in six or seven years, heh, heh...

We shall see.
 
If you have this rust scales you are screwed.
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Squatch said:
I've wondered about that, myself. Welding a plug or a cap over whatever size hole you needed to drill. Seems like a feasible solution to me. I see in your second post that you went ahead with drilling the larger holes. I like what you're saying about the results when cleaning out the frame. Not saying I am for sure going to do this, but it's definitely a consideration. Thanks for posting it!
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Instead of welding plugs to close up the holes, wouldn't the expandable freeze plugs work just as well and still be able to remove them for future clean ups? Just my 2 cents!!
 
Brian J Theriault said:
Instead of welding plugs to close up the holes, wouldn't the expandable freeze plugs work just as well and still be able to remove them for future clean ups? Just my 2 cents!!
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If all you're looking to do is plug the hole, then that seems like a viable solution, so long as you can get the right size (small enough) expandable freeze plug. My concern would be, however, that having a large(-ish) hole in the frame might be considered a weak point. Welding in a plug or cap would help to return some strength to that area, as I see it. Just a thought...
 
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After I made my own safety rails I put 1" holes at either end and primed the inside of the new pieces before welding them on.I then did the eastwood coating .Then a few weeks later I fluid filmed them good.Then just popped plastic removable caps in the holes so I could remove to get fluid film in again. Those chrysler so called engineers that said not to drill holes are the same stupid ones that caused the problem in the first place by not putting a few 1/2" to 1" ones at either end in the first place.
 
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Thats what I did. They say it seals the metal from the oxygen causing the rust.Don't know how true that is but I now have clean new metal at the bottom. From about an inch up was fine anyway in my case.The fluid film applied yearly should slow the problem .ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS PUT IN DRAIN HOLES F-————-K.
Sorry but it just upsets me .It is called crossing river for example.Water in water out.
 
bruceco said:
Thats what I did. They say it seals the metal from the oxygen causing the rust.Don't know how true that is but I now have clean new metal at the bottom. From about an inch up was fine anyway in my case.The fluid film applied yearly should slow the problem .ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS PUT IN DRAIN HOLES F-————-K.
Sorry but it just upsets me .It is called crossing river for example.Water in water out.
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Yeah it's a huge bummer - I bought mine hoping to keep it for many many years. I knew it'd take work but sheesh. I don't think the inside of mine is quite as serious as that picture but it's definitely a bit more concerning than I initially thought. Warm weather can't come soon enough.

Dumb question about fluid film...I read in another thread that it's always supposed to be wet and sticky, even long after it's first applied. Is that correct?

How do you apply yours? Are you crawling under there and spraying yourself with cans?
 
Not_Invented_Here_ said:
Yeah it's a huge bummer - I bought mine hoping to keep it for many many years. I knew it'd take work but sheesh. I don't think the inside of mine is quite as serious as that picture but it's definitely a bit more concerning than I initially thought. Warm weather can't come soon enough.

Dumb question about fluid film...I read in another thread that it's always supposed to be wet and sticky, even long after it's first applied. Is that correct?

How do you apply yours? Are you crawling under there and spraying yourself with cans?
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Yep, it’s lanolin and will stay sticky until it gets a nice coating of dirt/dust/salt etc. I used 5 cans of their aerosol cans to do the underbody, tub, frame, inside frame, springs, shocks, transfer case linkage etc....everything but brakes and exhaust essentially. You can buy sprayers and fill them as well if you want.

During Winter, I won’t pressure wash the underbody under high pressure, just carefully under low pressure in select areas so I keep the fluid film on during Winter. In the Spring, after the salt is washed away from the roads, I’ll pressure wash everything real clean, including removing the fluid film. During the Summer I’ll touch up rust spots as I can with sanding or rust reformer for surface rust. I’ll hit the spots with high temp anti-rust black paint. Let it all cure in the heat of July and August. Then, in the Fall, I’ll apply the fluid film again to a nice, dry, and clean underbody. Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
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If you get the eastwood product there is a plastic tube about 20" long with each can. I saved one of mine and put it onto the fluid film can.I cut the brass end off then fed it into the frame to get it further in. Worked great.Otherwise I just used the short plastic end.Still sticky after a year.
 
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