How to determine if clock spring is bad?

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mcoh1030

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MY JEEP GOT WET, BECAUSE I LEFT THE TOP DOWN.

IT'S RIDING AND IDLING ROUGH

CAN I DISCONNECT THE CLOCK SPRING TO SEE IF IT WILL RIDE BETTER? THUS DETERMINING THAT THE CLOCK SPRING IS BAD.
 
Why would the clock spring have anything to do with idling rough? That shouldn't have anything to do with it at all.
 
When the Clock Spring goes bad, (ie your horn stops working or your cruise controls stops working or your air bag light stays on, all symptoms of a bad clock spring) the TPS, (Throttle Position Senor) will receive electrical spike, (OBD II Codes P0121 and P0123) which will cause a rough idle, stalling and bucking at approx. 2k rpm.

What I'm thinking to do is to remove the electrical connection into the clock spring harness and then try to start the vehicle and drive it and see if the bucking and rough idle stop. I know I won't have cruise control, driver air bag or horn. But until the part arrives, I though it would be a good way to not only determine if the part is bad, but to use the jeep.

My concern is the air bag...….would it go off?? I doubt it, because it's theoretically disconnected. But wanted advise.
 
I wasn't aware the clock spring was tied into the TPS. I knew about the other stuff, just not the TPS.

The airbag wouldn't go off, no. However, you would have an airbag light that would be stuck on after that and require an SRS scan tool (a lot of OBDII scanners have this feature built in) to reset the light.

I'm also not 100% sure, but the FSM may have a test procedure for the clock spring in it. You can download one here for free if you want to check:
Jeep Wrangler TJ Factory Service Manuals (FSM) & Technical Documentation

Is your horn and cruise control not working anymore either? If so, you are probably on the right track.
 
Chris.....THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE MANUAL LINK. Excellent!!!!

Now, onto what you said. Tell me why the air bag won't go off. I'm guessing because it's disconnected, right?

Also, can you elaborate on the comments you made about the "resetting" of the air bag light? Would I need a special tool to reset the light to the Off position? The last thing I would want is for the light to remain on. Wouldn't the light turn off, "after" I replace the clock spring with a new one???
 
It's been about 3 days since the big rain storm. Initially, (right after the storm) when I first drove the jeep, everything seemed fine. But then, after the first short 20 minute drive, the next time I drove it, it started to buck forward and lurch. The idle got real bad and it started stalling. The Cruise Control would not go on. Then, the horn started going off all by itself. I disconnected the horn from under the hood. Then, at the very same moment the horn was going off, I noticed the Air Bag Light was on and wouldn't go off.

I let the vehicle rest over night. I started in the morning and the Air Bag light was Off and when I plugged the Horn back in, it was fine. So I decided, after reading loads of blog posts, that I would put a fan, blowing on the steering column, to try and dry things out. It's been drying out, for about 3 days. But still no cruise control and it's still riding rough, bucking and it's got a bad idle.

I've read a few posts where guys have said things can resolve themselves once things dry out. But, I was wondering if I disconnect the wires from the back of the clock spring, to see if the rough idle goes away, would there be any issue. I mean, I don't care about missing my air bag, horn and cruise control for a week or so, until things either dry out of don't. So long as I don't blow off the air bag.
 
I don't recall the number right now, but if you're worried about setting off the airbag there's a fuse you can pull to be safe.
 
CodaMan said:
I don't recall the number right now, but if you're worried about setting off the airbag there's a fuse you can pull to be safe.
Click to expand...
There are actually two airbag fuses and both must be pulled to disable the airbags. Leaving either fuse in will leave both airbags enabled.

Micoh1030, I'd give the clockspring another couple days to air out which means leaving the windows open as much as possible before replacing it. And yes a bad clockspring can produce noise on the databus which the TPS is also plugged into to cause a bad idle/erratic acceleration. :)
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
There are actually two airbag fuses and both must be pulled to disable the airbags. Leaving either fuse in will leave both airbags enabled.

Micoh1030, I'd give the clockspring another couple days to air out which means leaving the windows open as much as possible before replacing it. And yes a bad clockspring can produce noise on the databus which the TPS is also plugged into to cause a bad idle/erratic acceleration. :)
Click to expand...
Can leaving your TJ out in a rain storm really wreck your clock spring? That seems like a really bad design.
 
Jerry.....….I know you da man when it comes to Jeeps!!! When ever I have an issue and look to the Sites/Posts/Threads to find answers, I always try to catch your advise........I've only had success doing so and I've done a lot of stuff over the years on my Jeep. So thank you for all the time and effort you make Posting etc....

And thank you all for responding. Let me just say this;

Since I wanted to find something that would allow me to confirm that disconnecting the clock spring, while it was still in place and since there's no straight forward answer on the internet...…"anywhere" to the question;

Can I disconnect the Clock Spring Harness and is it "safe" to do so (airbag won't deploy) and if doing so, will confirm a bad clock spring, (eliminate the rough idle, stalling, bucking, lurching at 2k rpm).

The answer is; you can disconnect the Clock Spring Electrical Harness and by doing so, you can confirm that the Clock Spring is the cause of your problems. Here's what I did;

FIRST I DISCONNECTED MY BATTERY AND WAITED 10 MINUTES.

I PULLED OFF THE CLOCK SPRING CONNECTION IN BACK OF THE CLOCK SPRING.

RECONNECTED MY BATTERY.

THE JEEP STARTED......NO PROBLEM.

MY ISSUE WITH THE ROUGH IDLE.....STALLING, BUCKING, LURCHING, GONE!!!

THIS IS ONE WAY TO TEST FOR A BAD CLOCK SPRING.

Now, in one of Jerry's Posts......probably going back years.....he mentioned that the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) can be effected if the Clock Spring shorts, is broken (gets wet because it rains into your Jeep).

Let me tell you...…..he was absolutely right!!!

My deal was finding a way to confirm what he said and to make sure I was pinpoint the cause, before purchasing a damn
$ 150.00 part. Keeping in mind, lots of guys go for a new TPS before confirming if it's the Clock Spring that's bad. Again, to some other posts I've read;

NEVER BUY A USED CLOCK SPRING.

Now, final question/thought; I read a lot about trying to dry out the clock spring, (again, I was an ass and left the top down and it rained heavily into my Jeep, which I'm certain, now, was the reason my issue occurred in the first place),

I've tried, removing the upper and lower shroud on the steering column and I put a small fan, both underneath and above the steering column so that air would blow onto the clock spring.....in an attempt to "dry out" the clock spring.

How long, is long enough, to confirm that trying to dry it out...….isn't going to work and that I should just order and replace the Clock Spring?

Again, thanks to everyone for all their help!!!!

You guys are great!!!
 
Perhaps consider just removing it to inspect it / dry it out? Takes just about ten min to get the clockspring out- just need a steering wheel puller tool


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've read that it's possible to do just that. I was thinking of heading over the Harbor Freight, grabbing a cheap Steering Wheel Puller, (I don't know when I'll have a use for it in the future) it's only $ 15 bucks. Pulling it out and trying to open it to dry it.

I read a Post by some guy who was VERY clear, Pull it Out first, before buying a new one and try cleaning it up. He did and it saved him having to purchase a New One. I think I'm going to go that route and will let you guys know what I find.

Thanks,
 
Hey guys, I'm updating here. OK, so I order a Clock Spring, on-line (I have cruise control so the clock spring I ordered was more than one would be without cruise) total was $ 105.00 free shipping. Order it on Ebay from JC Whitney. Anyway, I took Jerry's advise, SERIOUSLY. I removed the shroud, left my Jeep outside in the hot sun, (I'm down in Florida) for the last few days. The Clock Spring showed up today in the mail. So before I started pulling the wheel off, I reconnected the existing Clock Spring, sure enough……..just like and a few others pointed out, everything is back to normal. Cruise working, no more rough idle, horn fine and air bag light off.

I guess long story short, IF YOU EVER GET CAUGHT IN THE RAIN, WITH YOUR TOP DOWN AND YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, LIKE A DISCRIBED ABOVE, DRY IT OUT......REALLY, REALLY GOOD FIRST. IT MIGHT COME BACK TO LIFE.

Mine appears to be working properly. I'll give it a few days and let you know if it's all good. Then I'll return the part.....I think it's free return thru Whitney.
 
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mcoh1030 said:
Hey guys, I'm updating here. OK, so I order a Clock Spring, on-line (I have cruise control so the clock spring I ordered was more than one would be without cruise) total was $ 105.00 free shipping. Order it on Ebay from JC Whitney. Anyway, I took Jerry's advise, SERIOUSLY. I removed the shroud, left my Jeep outside in the hot sun, (I'm down in Florida) for the last few days. The Clock Spring showed up today in the mail. So before I started pulling the wheel off, I reconnected the existing Clock Spring, sure enough……..just like and a few others pointed out, everything is back to normal. Cruise working, no more rough idle, horn fine and air bag light off.

I guess long story short, IF YOU EVER GET CAUGHT IN THE RAIN, WITH YOUR TOP DOWN AND YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, LIKE A DISCRIBED ABOVE, DRY IT OUT......REALLY, REALLY GOOD FIRST. IT MIGHT COME BACK TO LIFE.

Mine appears to be working properly. I'll give it a few days and let you know if it's all good. Then I'll return the part.....I think it's free return thru Whitney.
Click to expand...

I am glad that worked out for you, but sad that this is even issue in a convertible vehicle. I know people are going to say "What do you expect it is a convertible, but I expect electronics to be a little more waterproof in a convertible especially one that is 4 wheel drive.

Now I wonder if there is a way to seal that up better in the column. I hate to think I am out in the boon docks, and get caught with my top down, that this can be an issue.

Thanks for the post and the follow up!
 
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If I’m not mistaken your blinkers will stop resetting when you turn the steering wheel if your clock spring is bad.
 
mcoh1030 said:
Jerry.....….I know you da man when it comes to Jeeps!!! When ever I have an issue and look to the Sites/Posts/Threads to find answers, I always try to catch your advise........I've only had success doing so and I've done a lot of stuff over the years on my Jeep. So thank you for all the time and effort you make Posting etc....

And thank you all for responding. Let me just say this;

Since I wanted to find something that would allow me to confirm that disconnecting the clock spring, while it was still in place and since there's no straight forward answer on the internet...…"anywhere" to the question;

Can I disconnect the Clock Spring Harness and is it "safe" to do so (airbag won't deploy) and if doing so, will confirm a bad clock spring, (eliminate the rough idle, stalling, bucking, lurching at 2k rpm).

The answer is; you can disconnect the Clock Spring Electrical Harness and by doing so, you can confirm that the Clock Spring is the cause of your problems. Here's what I did;

FIRST I DISCONNECTED MY BATTERY AND WAITED 10 MINUTES.

I PULLED OFF THE CLOCK SPRING CONNECTION IN BACK OF THE CLOCK SPRING.

RECONNECTED MY BATTERY.

THE JEEP STARTED......NO PROBLEM.

MY ISSUE WITH THE ROUGH IDLE.....STALLING, BUCKING, LURCHING, GONE!!!

THIS IS ONE WAY TO TEST FOR A BAD CLOCK SPRING.

Now, in one of Jerry's Posts......probably going back years.....he mentioned that the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) can be effected if the Clock Spring shorts, is broken (gets wet because it rains into your Jeep).

Let me tell you...…..he was absolutely right!!!

My deal was finding a way to confirm what he said and to make sure I was pinpoint the cause, before purchasing a damn
$ 150.00 part. Keeping in mind, lots of guys go for a new TPS before confirming if it's the Clock Spring that's bad. Again, to some other posts I've read;

NEVER BUY A USED CLOCK SPRING.

Now, final question/thought; I read a lot about trying to dry out the clock spring, (again, I was an ass and left the top down and it rained heavily into my Jeep, which I'm certain, now, was the reason my issue occurred in the first place),

I've tried, removing the upper and lower shroud on the steering column and I put a small fan, both underneath and above the steering column so that air would blow onto the clock spring.....in an attempt to "dry out" the clock spring.

How long, is long enough, to confirm that trying to dry it out...….isn't going to work and that I should just order and replace the Clock Spring?

Again, thanks to everyone for all their help!!!!



You guys are great!!!
Click to expand...

@Jerry Bransford really knows this jeep stuff and is a hell of a resource on all things electronic. @Chris is no slouch either. Those two make this one of two sites I will pay for.
 
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Hey guys!

I have been following this thread as I had the same issues with the clock spring. Jeep was out in the rain overnight a week ago with just the sun shade top on. In the morning I noticed the air bag light stayed on for a while but then went out. Later in the day my wife said the Jeep was running like crap and would stall when coming to stops. My search began online for reasons why this would happen and led me to this thread.

I first tried replacing the TPS and had the same symptoms. I then noticed while troubleshooting, that my cruise would not work and each time I pressed the cruise On/Off button the idle would dip and if I did this when driving the Jeep would buck. So this led me to suspecting the clock spring.

We live in Hawaii, and parts are not readily available here. Shipping is expensive too. So before I just ordered a clock spring I decided to pull the current one and inspect it. After much effort, I finally got the steering wheel off. What an ordeal that was since I could not find the correct puller anywhere on island. I removed the clock spring and tested the idle, worked perfect. I actually opened the clock spring unit and noticed the connector going from the ribbon to the terminal contacts had quite a bit of corrosion. I did happen to have terminal cleaner and conditioner from working on an old console stereo a couple years ago. I cleaned and conditioned the contacts till they looked like new. Put it all back together, carefully mind you, and hooked it back into the Jeep. Started up and ran just fine! I made sure to give the ribbon coil enough space to turn in either direction, mostly guestimated to be honest. Got the wheel mounted, cruise, horn and air bag reconnected and took him for a spin. Stalling and idle issues are gone.

I just thought I would add all this to confirm that with some effort and careful handling, you can attempt to clean the inside contacts of the clock spring. Now that that is done I will make sure to not leave the top off when it is raining!

Chris
 
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I’m wondering if I have a clockspring issue as well, my horn won’t stop, I have to jiggle my key to get my gages working, and sometimes the heater and wipers, I recently changed the ignition actuator switch, the old one was perfectly fine after examining it.. horn still goes on when I reconnect the wire.. I have a hard top and haven’t gotten anything wet... maybe I should install a new ignition switch before messing with the clock spring?
 
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