I get why people are buying $50K+ new Wranglers

[DaveF]

Or "Software Program".

As a career IT guy, Software Program is not necessarily redundant.

It's kind of like a square and rectangle.. a program is typically software (at least in todays world), but not all software is a program. Some software, such as a database or .dll file is not a program, just code or data that exists to support programs, then can't actually be 'run' or 'executed' like a program would.

Programs actually predate software, think punch cards.

In today's IT language, program is usually replaced with application however because most applications or programs use more than just the code or executable you buy with it, they use helper files that pre-exist in the operation system or other files.

and yes, files are also software, and can be but are not always programs!

 

[Zorba]

As a career IT guy, Software Program is not necessarily redundant.

It's kind of like a square and rectangle.. a program is typically software (at least in today's world), but not all software is a program. Some software, such as a database or .dll file is not a program, just code or data that exists to support programs, then can't actually be 'run' or 'executed' like a program would.

Programs actually predate software, think punch cards.

In today's IT language, program is usually replaced with application however because most applications or programs use more than just the code or executable you buy with it, they use helper files that pre-exist in the operation system or other files.

and yes, files are also software, and can be but are not always programs!

I'm old skool. I've worked IT, built, designed, used, and programmed computers for a living. In my world, "software" and "program" are one and the same, and data is DATA. If said data is in a file, then its a "data file". This was, of course, decades before today's "object oriented" ideas - which I think causes more problems than it solves. I only use the word "Application", or "Application Software" or even "Application Program" to refer to "user programs" that manipulate data, to differentiate from system software or programs. And I *NEVER* use the word "App" to refer to any code on a computer - that's a smartphone term - most, but not all of which can be replaced by a simple web page. Despite Microsoft and Apple both trying to redefine the word (yet again).

 

[DaveF]

I'm old skool. I've worked IT, built, designed, used, and programmed computers for a living. In my world, "software" and "program" are one and the same, and data is DATA. If said data is in a file, then its a "data file". This was, of course, decades before today's "object oriented" ideas - which I think causes more problems than it solves. I only use the word "Application", or "Application Software" or even "Application Program" to refer to "user programs" that manipulate data, to differentiate from system software or programs. And I *NEVER* use the word "App" to refer to any code on a computer - that's a smartphone term - most, but not all of which can be replaced by a simple web page. Despite Microsoft and Apple both trying to redefine the word (yet again).

I hear you, but unfortunately you can't stay old skool in IT... it's a quick way to become unemployed :/

 

[pc1p]

... I really don't see the point of fooling around with inefficient, torqueless gasoline engines - although there are a few that have earned my respect, the 4.0 being one of them.

lol - said you're tired of gutless, inefficient gassers and then declare your respect for one of the most gutless and inefficient motors ever made??

 

[Zorba]

I hear you, but unfortunately you can't stay old skool in IT... it's a quick way to become unemployed :/

yea - I worked in Hi-Tech my entire career, IT the last 8+. The entire time there was that niggling voice constantly in the back of my head "Keep up, keep up, keep up, keep up...." It got REALLY tiresome after a number of years, and I'm glad to be retired from it all now.

 

[Zorba]

lol - said you're tired of gutless, inefficient gassers and then declare your respect for one of the most gutless and inefficient motors ever made??

You can't have everything! Your definition of "gutless" and mine differ. The 4.0 is a low revving, (relatively) high torque, high reliability gas engine - exactly what I like about diesels. "High efficiency" its not - but from my perspective its hard to get high efficiency, low end grunt, and longevity in a gas engine (Pick any two). But compared to my beloved big block 305 V6 GMC engine, the 4.0 is VERY efficient! Then again, that V6 had gobs more low end torque and was indestructible. But it guzzled the dino juice, far more than our 4.0.

Of course, a Cat D6600 would be wonderful on the trail. Wouldn't work on the street and its way too heavy anyway, but it'd be fun! Might as well just leave that engine in the RD-6 bulldozer it came in and tool around with that!

 

[DaveC]

I got my new at the time 2019 3500 Denali with the Duramax for 68k... not really that much more than a Gladiator for more than 2x the truck!

But they are for different purposes obviously. I will say, I love that Duramax, the torque is insane and it just drives so easy. Also, getting 13mpg when hauling both a Jeep and camper.... try that in a gas engine! Hell that's better than my LJ gets on it's own.

What's your tow setup for towing both camper and Jeep at the same time? We've had a toy hauler for years that we tow but can't tow both the camper and TJ, so we're starting to look into how we can tow both.

 

[DaveF]

What's your tow setup for towing both camper and Jeep at the same time? We've had a toy hauler for years that we tow but can't tow both the camper and TJ, so we're starting to look into how we can tow both.

My days of hauling double trailers ended when I moved out of trucking and into IT Here is what we roll with today... less room than a big camper trailer, but much more versatility, maneuverability, and it works for us the truck is an 8' bed, with an 8' floor camper... intentionally went smallish on the camper to allow for lower weight on the truck as well as to avoid the need for hitch extensions.

 

[Blackiosh]

Question for you @RustyAutoholicGuy. If you were to proceed with buying your "ideal Wrangler" shown above, would you wheel it the same way you would your current Jeeps? Would your style of wheeling change because of the age/ price of the vehicle?

You asked a great and relevant question. Recently some of us forum guys from Arizona went wheeling. My TJ was in the shop so I took my 4runner TRD Pro. Very capable vehicle, but as I was cautiously driving over some tuff obstacles, I decided to turn back. I couldn't justify risking damage to my relatively expensive DD and having that on my mind made the trip much less enjoyable. Not that I want to destroy my TJ, but I'm much more comfortable challenging myself in a 20 year old Jeep vs a newer 4runner.

 

[SvtLdr]

You asked a great and relevant question. Recently some of us forum guys from Arizona went wheeling. My TJ was in the shop so I took my 4runner TRD Pro. Very capable vehicle, but as I was cautiously driving over some tuff obstacles, I decided to turn back. I couldn't justify risking damage to my relatively expensive DD and having that on my mind made the trip much less enjoyable. Not that I want to destroy my TJ, but I'm much more comfortable challenging myself in a 20 year old Jeep vs a newer 4runner.

I expect I would take a similar path if I were in your shoes.

 

[DETOUR]

Personally, I wouldn't use a Gladiator to tow a Jeep, unless maybe you're flat towing... 7k tow rating = Jeep at say 4500+ lbs and trailer at 2k lbs... you're right at that limit. Guessing like most light trucks to actually tow more than like 5500 you also need to deal with weight distributing hitch as well, which also adds weight. Light trucks just can't tow 6-7k lbs safely for long distance IMO (weight, wheel base, etc). Better to get at least a half ton full size for that. That's why I traded in my Canyon for a larger truck after doing the research.

Hey guys
Sorry, couldn’t resist to pipe in.
Speaking of towing , I should have taken a pic of the one time we needed to tow our LJ to our neighbouring town with our family vehicle :

• ‘06 TOYOTA SIENNA AWD

it was a priceless sight !

 

[DETOUR]

I got my new at the time 2019 3500 Denali with the Duramax for 68k... not really that much more than a Gladiator for more than 2x the truck!

But they are for different purposes obviously. I will say, I love that Duramax, the torque is insane and it just drives so easy. Also, getting 13mpg when hauling both a Jeep and camper.... try that in a gas engine! Hell that's better than my LJ gets on it's own.

Detour again here
I’ve taken a Chev Colorado or Canyon pickup with a 4 cyl Duramax for a test drive and was surprised about the rattling sound inside the cab !
• Mind you , I only drove it around for 15 min max
• don’t get me wrong , these small oil burners are absolutely phenomenal on fuel mileage,
• but, there again, if one has issues with the electronic fuel management, brace yourselves for some serious “Katching”
• I’ve talked to 2 owners here in Dawson Creek and they absolutely love them .
• I’m i off topic again ?
sorry folks, it’s probably caused by the “sparkplug-delete” virus I’m carrying around

 

[psrivats]

I tried to talk my wife into a JLUR. Kids thought it was cool, but the boss wasn't having it. Hopefully, the Bronco has a nicer ride.

I think that's the better choice.

 

[zebra12]

I think that's the better choice.

When I move back home, we are going to need a new car. She'll want a Lexus SUV or similar, but I'll offer a Bronco coupled with a trip to Banff NP.

 

[Bdaust]

I test drove a new 2021 JLU yesterday. My wife need a new car and wants one. They are nice an expensive. I been trying to get her to buy a used Tj unlimited rubicon for months. She has her heart set on JLU Sahara. I cannot try to talk her out of it because I have 3 cars and two are in the garage.

 

[TurboTJ]

I got my new at the time 2019 3500 Denali with the Duramax for 68k... not really that much more than a Gladiator for more than 2x the truck!

But they are for different purposes obviously. I will say, I love that Duramax, the torque is insane and it just drives so easy. Also, getting 13mpg when hauling both a Jeep and camper.... try that in a gas engine! Hell that's better than my LJ gets on it's own.

Wow, that is pretty good! I have a 2017 F350 crewcab, long bed diesel, and with the camper in it and flat towing the TJ I only get 10 mpg.

 

[AndyG]

I could have written this.

'96 Passat TDI. WONDERFUL engine, nice (manual) tranny. All sorts of electric/electronic problems. Like you, I'm pretty much "done" with new vehicles, and I've been accused of being the reincarnation of ol' Rudolf himself as I really don't see the point of fooling around with inefficient, torqueless gasoline engines - although there are a few that have earned my respect, the 4.0 being one of them.

I drive a deleted 6.7 Ford Diesel, it is designed in Austria and is a beast....because I tow a fairly well set up work trailer. With the performance of modern gas engines, I can’t rationalize a diesel of any kind in a TJ. I just can’t. Even if you could tow more the short wheel base can’t handle it.
its sort of a mad scientist thing when I see it . That’s me. Maybe I’m way off.

 

[Zorba]

I drive a deleted 6.7 Ford Diesel, it is designed in Austria and is a beast....because I tow a fairly well set up work trailer. With the performance of modern gas engines, I can’t rationalize a diesel of any kind in a TJ. I just can’t. Even if you could tow more the short wheel base can’t handle it.
its sort of a mad scientist thing when I see it . That’s me. Maybe I’m way off.

For me - its about driveablity. I find diesels to be far nicer to drive with their low end grunt. That would, of course, make fans of 10,000 RPM racing engines cringe - but my love is low end power.

 

[Rick Flair]

We are putting in a super charger on the 4Runner. It is what is needed to make it completely done.



The TJ is weak but excels off-road so I’ll just gear it down and enjoy it.



For a tow rig.


I’ve done them for years.


1/2 ton trucks, 3/4 trucks, 1 ton trucks.

I’ll never get a lessor truck for towing ever again.

Hell I tried to tow my 6k boat with my 4Runner to see if I could for 30 miles. Nope. Lol.


My next truck will be a F450 cause slide in camper and towing. Opens up larger trailers.


And loaded up....$70k OTD for a fairly loaded truck. New.

 

[Zorba]

We are putting in a super charger on the 4Runner. It is what is needed to make it completely done.



The TJ is weak but excels off-road so I’ll just gear it down and enjoy it.



For a tow rig.


I’ve done them for years.


1/2 ton trucks, 3/4 trucks, 1 ton trucks.

I’ll never get a lessor truck for towing ever again.

Hell I tried to tow my 6k boat with my 4Runner to see if I could for 30 miles. Nope. Lol.


My next truck will be a F450 cause slide in camper and towing. Opens up larger trailers.


And loaded up....$70k OTD for a fairly loaded truck. New.

Take a look at "lightly used" commercial trucks. For the same price or probably better, you'll get a LOT more truck with less crap and "technology".