In praise of basically stock TJ's

StG58

TJ Guru
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I thought I'd put this out there, once again, after another weekend in the woods.

It's good to pause and reflect on the utility of and the enjoyment you can get out of a basically stock TJ. Spent the weekend running the Barlow Trail. My basically stock SE did just fine. Dirt, mud, rocks, sand...whatever the trail had to offer it was a strictly point and shoot afair. No drama or breakages.

I know this is a builder's forum, and I've got nothing against that. In fact, I love to read about and see what everyone's doing with their TJ's. But I think that we all need to pause on occasion and reflect on what can be done with a pretty much stock rig.

It's easy to get caught up in the build cycle, especially when it seems that everyone is doing it. Sometimes I think that if we put the time and effort into learning how to really wheel our kinda stock rigs, we'd be money ahead. Note that I'm not talking about places like Johnson Valley or the local off road park. Just general "I want to go there" wheeling.

The money I've spent on gas and food instead of the latest and greatest upgrade has made me a much more competent off road driver. The little SE takes me places folks in built Jeeps won't go. Not because of the Jeep and it's modifications, but because I know my TJ and how to get it from point A to point B.

Just some thoughts.
 
I try to preach the same thing to all the newbies that run out and spend a ton of money before learning how to wheel it as is.
Lately it seems like just a pissing match of whose got the bigger tires or bigger motor. No effort, or desire to learn the technical side. Definitely no respect for Tread Lightly.

I noticed Jeep Jamboree raised their maximum tire size from 37" to 40" (on the Rubicon). I guess they were losing too many potential customers.
 
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I try to preach the same thing to all the newbies that run out and spend a ton of money before learning how to wheel it as is.
Lately it seems like just a pissing match of whose got the bigger tires or bigger motor. No effort, or desire to learn the technical side. Definitely no respect for Tread Lightly.

I noticed Jeep Jamboree raised their maximum tire size from 37" to 40" (on the Rubicon). I guess they were losing too many potential customers.
Hmmm...don't folks do (did?) the Rubicon in CJ2A's?
 
I thought I'd put this out there, once again, after another weekend in the woods.

It's good to pause and reflect on the utility of and the enjoyment you can get out of a basically stock TJ. Spent the weekend running the Barlow Trail. My basically stock SE did just fine. Dirt, mud, rocks, sand...whatever the trail had to offer it was a strictly point and shoot afair. No drama or breakages.

I know this is a builder's forum, and I've got nothing against that. In fact, I love to read about and see what everyone's doing with their TJ's. But I think that we all need to pause on occasion and reflect on what can be done with a pretty much stock rig.

It's easy to get caught up in the build cycle, especially when it seems that everyone is doing it. Sometimes I think that if we put the time and effort into learning how to really wheel our kinda stock rigs, we'd be money ahead. Note that I'm not talking about places like Johnson Valley or the local off road park. Just general "I want to go there" wheeling.

The money I've spent on gas and food instead of the latest and greatest upgrade has made me a much more competent off road driver. The little SE takes me places folks in built Jeeps won't go. Not because of the Jeep and it's modifications, but because I know my TJ and how to get it from point A to point B.

Just some thoughts.
I wouldn't consider this a builder's forum. I'd strongly consider this a forum of enthusiastic owners who like to share what they do which is considerably different than "if you don't build it you don't belong here" type of forum.

If you catch it, my first piece of advice to new owners is always to go drive it, learn it, learn how to drive it and only when it quits taking you where you want to go, then change it until it does. I have 3 stock rigs and 2 built ones. That will change soon when the builder project that I bought arrives and I can start on it.
 
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I wouldn't consider this a builder's forum. I'd strongly consider a forum of enthusiastic owners who like to share what they do which is considerably different than "if you don't build it you don't belong here" type of forum.

If you catch it, my first piece of advice to new owners is always to go drive it, learn it, learn how to drive it and only when it quits taking you where you want to go, then change it until it does. I have 3 stock rigs and 2 built ones. That will change soon when the builder project that I bought arrives and I can start on it.
True enough, and I stand corrected. With all of the enthusiast mods discussed here it's easy to overlook all of the wheel and tire crowd though. We could all stand a little self reflection on these matters at times. Well, most of us anyway.

Your second paragraph speaks volumes coming from "the TJ guy". TJ's are not shy about telling you what they really need for how and where you actually wheel.
 
TJ's are not shy about telling you what they really need for how and where you actually wheel.
No they aren't and what we see more of than I would like is owners who build the rig bigger and bigger to overcome their lack of talent acquired through just basic seat time. Build your skills and it will be rare when you have more skill than rig capability.
 
I try to preach the same thing to all the newbies that run out and spend a ton of money before learning how to wheel it as is.
Lately it seems like just a pissing match of whose got the bigger tires or bigger motor. No effort, or desire to learn the technical side. Definitely no respect for Tread Lightly.

I noticed Jeep Jamboree raised their maximum tire size from 37" to 40" (on the Rubicon). I guess they were losing too many potential customers.
Losing potential customers or recognizing that technology and off the shelf parts have advanced to the point where what was once very rare is now common place?
 
My 97 SE was lifted 2” by a previous owner and I have 31 all terrain tires. It’s mostly stock after that. I’ve had to replace the stereo and I did the headlights. I find that it’s fine for what we do, it has high mileage but runs like a top. I like mostly stock vehicles, for the most part they are reliable and certainly less expensive.
I suppose if I had the time and $ I’d think about some changes, one of them being air conditioning..
I like my Jeep as is.
 
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At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I threw a set of metric 33's on the wife's JKU. The break-over angle on that thing looks atrocious even with 33's. There is no way that it will go where the TJ commonly goes without dragging it's un-armored undersides. Is that the driver for allowing 40" tires? Or am I just spoiled by the TJ?
 
I thought I'd put this out there, once again, after another weekend in the woods.

It's good to pause and reflect on the utility of and the enjoyment you can get out of a basically stock TJ. Spent the weekend running the Barlow Trail. My basically stock SE did just fine. Dirt, mud, rocks, sand...whatever the trail had to offer it was a strictly point and shoot afair. No drama or breakages.

I know this is a builder's forum, and I've got nothing against that. In fact, I love to read about and see what everyone's doing with their TJ's. But I think that we all need to pause on occasion and reflect on what can be done with a pretty much stock rig.

It's easy to get caught up in the build cycle, especially when it seems that everyone is doing it. Sometimes I think that if we put the time and effort into learning how to really wheel our kinda stock rigs, we'd be money ahead. Note that I'm not talking about places like Johnson Valley or the local off road park. Just general "I want to go there" wheeling.

The money I've spent on gas and food instead of the latest and greatest upgrade has made me a much more competent off road driver. The little SE takes me places folks in built Jeeps won't go. Not because of the Jeep and it's modifications, but because I know my TJ and how to get it from point A to point B.

Just some thoughts.
On the money.... I've been returning my TJR to stock configuration. And liking it more every day. The stock Wrangler really id TrailRated and incredibly capable. Almost every mod creates a weakness which needs another mod leading to something else breaking.

Jeep has way more research money than any aftermarket parts seller. Completely stock the Wrangler is more capable & reliable than a modified Wrangler.....

Admittedly the guys climbing waterfalls NEED all those mods. But 90% of us on this Forum will never go there. As for stock on trails like the Rubicon...

Love the old fart, hands free, in the blue CJ
 
not buying it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Or put another way, our opinions and attitudes towards things in this world are formed by our experiences. If one makes that sort of statement, it isn't hard to figure out that they were their own worst enemy when it came to how they built their rig.
 
I wouldn't consider this a builder's forum. I'd strongly consider a forum of enthusiastic owners who like to share what they do which is considerably different than "if you don't build it you don't belong here" type of forum.

If you catch it, my first piece of advice to new owners is always to go drive it, learn it, learn how to drive it and only when it quits taking you where you want to go, then change it until it does. I have 3 stock rigs and 2 built ones. That will change soon when the builder project that I bought arrives and I can start on it.
Well said.

People " build" jeeps for a look, for ego, some for the most extreme , and everything in between. Some of these are well-planned, and some are just some guy that stuck on 33s and started trying to make everything work.



Builds cause owners so many challenges, it drives a lot of threads...To the point that you would almost think that's what this forum is here to do... Help everyone work through the consequences of changing so many things.


At the same time , there has been a " less is more" movement on here the last 6 months or so... Which may be a "I wish I had not wasted so much money to make my TJ barely more capable" movement. Either way it's not bad thing, and the best thing that people can ever do is nothing until they figure out what they want to do or need to do.

Another dynamic , since all the vehicles are used , is the guy who buys one that is built to some degree and gets his hands on it and tries to make it where it will actually drive safe.

As much as anything, we are just a bunch of folks trying to share experiences and help each other work through things.

I am of the mindset, that beyond rust, modifications by owners and shops that are not up to speed on these vehicles may be the biggest liability in purchasing one.

Builds aren't evil...but if you mess up your TJ you didn't do yourself a favor.
 
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Completely agree!

Aside from lockers, one mod I would reccommend for a stockish jeep is skid plates and rock sliders.

My oil pan on my stock height jeep will second this idea.

Lifts, winches, etc... are useful... but the armor tends to get overlooked.

Hell, I would venture and say skid plates should go on before a lift.
 
I thought I'd put this out there, once again, after another weekend in the woods.

It's good to pause and reflect on the utility of and the enjoyment you can get out of a basically stock TJ. Spent the weekend running the Barlow Trail. My basically stock SE did just fine. Dirt, mud, rocks, sand...whatever the trail had to offer it was a strictly point and shoot afair. No drama or breakages.

Just some thoughts.
Couldn't agree more, my first Wrangler, while not stock when I bought it (3" lift and 33's and yes it hit the fenders when disconnected), was a 97se with stock gearing (UHG). I was not new to the world of Jeep as I cut my teeth on my dad's stockish CJ5 with a 304 in it, when I was still in high school. Learning to drive the TJ was a totally new experience. It almost seemed too easy. Then I joined a club in the PNW and the challenge became learning how to drive so I could keep up with the more modified rigs which was more than half of the fun. Once the bug hit me I re-geared to 4.56 and "Trac-Loc" lockers and it took the challenge out of many of the "Club run" trails we frequented, but it enabled me to do more difficult trails.
 
Stock Jeeps are fine if that’s what you want, modified too if that’s what you want. If I could only have a stock TJ on stock tires I’d pass, probably would've bought an old Mustang convertible or something to play around with on nice days. The way I see it when the tires start growing it begins looking like a TJ should but I don’t ask anyone else to adopt that view – your TJ your choice.

I agree with @Greenmachine, it really is a piece of art & that’s where any owner’s vision can dictate an awful lot of its direction & to many people that trumps performance