Installing a winch, want a relay. Any suggestions?

BobK

BobK

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Here is the plan. I want to install a winch on the TJ, in fact I already have it. It came equipped to wire directly to the battery, but I'm not a fan of that approach. On my JLUR I used the Warn Power Interrupt solenoid and wired the lower power side to one of the factory build in Aux switches.

What I would like to do on the TJ, is find relay block that would work between the direct connections to the winch and the battery and allow me to pull some lower power wire to an Aux switch that I would add to the switch block already in the Jeep. What I need is confirmation that this is sane approach and a pointer to a decent relay to use for this purpose.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
 
Steel City 06 said:
You might consider one of the smaller Bussmann panels.
The smaller one holds 5 relays up to 30 amps each and 10 fuses up to 30 amps each
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A Jeep-size winch can easily draw well over 400 amps, those relays would quickly fry.

BobK, why do you believe you need a relay? No major manufacturers of Jeep size winches recommend them.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
A Jeep-size winch can easily draw well over 400 amps, those relays would quickly fry.

BobK, why do you believe you need a relay? No major manufacturers of Jeep size winches recommend them.
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I didn't realize he was looking to control the winch motor itself with that.

That would require something bigger, like a contactor.

An alternative would be a fused link. ANL fuses can be bought up to 750 amps. Fusing a winch at 500 amps might provide some extra protection against a short in a rollover or collision
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
A Jeep-size winch can easily draw well over 400 amps, those relays would quickly fry.

BobK, why do you believe you need a relay? No major manufacturers of Jeep size winches recommend them.
Click to expand...

I don't want to have the winch powered at all times (like when I'm not in the vehicle) so I want control the power going to the winch from a switch in the Jeep. On the JLUR, the Warn Power Interupt is controlled by a switch in the Aux panel in the Jeep. When I turn that switch on, then the winch has power, without that switch on the winch can't be used.

I'm thinking of getting another Warn Interrupt kit to wire the winch to the new TJ and instead of wiring to the Aux switch, wiring it to a off the shelf switch in the existing panel (or worse case use the one warn supplies).

Am I thinking wrong? I may have mis-spoke when I said relay.
 
Your starter motor is connected directly to the battery too without a relay in its main power either. It does fine. A winch is essentially a repurposed starter motor. Not many winch owners ignore the instructions that say to connect it directly to the battery. Which keeps it as reliable as possible. One less thing to fail. My background is electrical/electronic where the K.I.S.S. principle is very much still alive and well.
 
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BobK said:
I don't want to have the winch powered at all times (like when I'm not in the vehicle) so I want control the power going to the winch from a switch in the Jeep. On the JLUR, the Warn Power Interupt is controlled by a switch in the Aux panel in the Jeep. When I turn that switch on, then the winch has power, without that switch on the winch can't be used.

I'm thinking of getting another Warn Interrupt kit to wire the winch to the new TJ and instead of wiring to the Aux switch, wiring it to a off the shelf switch in the existing panel (or worse case use the one warn supplies).

Am I thinking wrong? I may have mis-spoke when I said relay.
Click to expand...
You should be able to install that kit. It comes with a contactor that can handle the current of the winch. As to whether the contactor needs a relay to trigger it would depend on how much current the contactor uses to close the circuit. The contactor on your starter motor, for example, is driven by a relay, because the current required to close it is too much for the ignition switch to safely handle.

Basically if the current required by the contactor exceeds what your current switch system can handle, you will need to add a relay.

(A contactor is basically just a giant mechanical relay.)
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
Your starter motor is connected directly to the battery too without a relay in its main power either. It does fine. A winch is essentially a repurposed starter motor. Not many winch owners ignore the instructions that say to connect it directly to the battery. Which keeps it as reliable as possible. One less thing to fail. My background is electrical/electronic where the K.I.S.S. principle is very much still alive and well.
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I agree with the premise and acknowledge that you're the expert, that's why I'm asking. But I do see a difference in your analogy with the starter. With a starter, without the ignition key, some kid walking through the parking lot is not going to be able to easily mess with starting the car. However, that same kid could decide to mess with my winch and Jeep. How do I prevent that from happening?
 
By the way, I'm happy to not spend the money on a relay or Power Interrupt Kit. Just checking to see if there is a way to secure the winch from being used when the Jeep isn't occupied.
 
The kid's not going to have or even likely know about the remote control. If you want to install a remote control in/out switch inside the cab, just include a key operated on-off switch in the control's ground circuit.

I had a remote inside my previous TJ but I didn't bother to install one into my current TJ.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
The kid's not going to have or even likely know about the remote control. If you want to install a remote control in/out switch inside the cab, just include a key operated on-off switch in the circuit.

I had a remote inside my previous TJ but I didn't bother to install one into my current TJ.
Click to expand...

Not having the remote control (wired and/or wireless) is a good point. Thanks for all the input.

Bob
 
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Hum...seems to me that there is still some low current electronics sitting there biased up (unlike the starter which is wired to a solenoid activated by your key). The winch is just sitting there (in some cases with active power for the wireless receiver) just waiting to power the contactor to the winch motor. Feels like it is a battery drain point over months or what not...
 
jeffmcclain said:
Hum...seems to me that there is still some low current electronics sitting there biased up (unlike the starter which is wired to a solenoid activated by your key). The winch is just sitting there (in some cases with active power for the wireless receiver) just waiting to power the contactor to the winch motor. Feels like it is a battery drain point over months or what not...
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The winch solenoids are acting just like a starter solenoid. The winch motor isn't getting power until those solenoids are enabled just like the starter. In this case, it is your remote rather than the key.


What someone could do is wire in a battery disconnect from the marine industry but rather than the battery it's the winch power it would be turning on/off. I'd do this only if you are scared of someone messing with the winch. Technically with the right knowledge, you could power a winch in/out with a paper clip.

Edit: you are right if you have a wireless controller perhaps there is a small drain but I can assure you it is an incredibly small drain and likely could be replaced with a watch battery it is so small.
 
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jeffmcclain said:
Hum...seems to me that there is still some low current electronics sitting there biased up (unlike the starter which is wired to a solenoid activated by your key). The winch is just sitting there (in some cases with active power for the wireless receiver) just waiting to power the contactor to the winch motor. Feels like it is a battery drain point over months or what not...
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If you go out and pull the positive battery cable off of the positive terminal on the battery, will the battery drain quickly or very slowly?
 
JeepingNet said:
The winch solenoids are acting just like a starter solenoid. The winch motor isn't getting power until those solenoids are enabled just like the starter. In this case, it is your remote rather than the key.


What someone could do is wire in a battery disconnect from the marine industry but rather than the battery it's the winch power it would be turning on/off. I'd do this only if you are scared of someone messing with the winch. Technically with the right knowledge, you could power a winch in/out with a paper clip.

Edit: you are right if you have a wireless controller perhaps there is a small drain but I can assure you it is an incredibly small drain and likely could be replaced with a watch battery it is so small.
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Yeah, understood the motor isn't powered, but even a small USB converter with no load over months can begin to discharge a car battery, and while you might argue you should remove the positive terminal if you're leaving the jeep that long, I really want to wire in a simple switch to the relay power box control of my winch. It is really no different than having the ignition switch that is wired to the starter. I don't love the idea that my wireless remote might get pressed (something sits on it in the jockey box and presses the button or it is in someone's pocket and activates). Just to ensure everything is off. MOST controller boxes have a smaller 12v lead that just wires to the main beefy 12V heavy winch line, but, it is easy to just wire that to a master rocker switch and turn it ALL off...
 
Then get a marine battery disconnect that is switchable but it isn't going to be cheap. You need a solenoid that can handle 300 amps of continuous power. Blue Sea Systems makes a few.
 
JeepingNet said:
Then get a marine battery disconnect that is switchable but it isn't going to be cheap. You need a solenoid that can handle 300 amps of continuous power. Blue Sea Systems makes a few.
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85 amp continuous gets the job done. Winching is an intermittent duty operation.
 
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JeepingNet said:
Then get a marine battery disconnect that is switchable but it isn't going to be cheap. You need a solenoid that can handle 300 amps of continuous power. Blue Sea Systems makes a few.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm probably not explaining myself very well. I have ZERO desire to switch/relay/fuse the main motor current lead. I'm saying to disable the control logic 12v small line with a master switch that prevents anything else from closing the motor solenoid. Basically a deadman's switch that prevents all the logic operation and the wireless receiver bias and control logic. It works pretty well and while I agree, is probably not necessary or required, it is far from stupid or useless. Just like saying a winch line flag is useless and stupid if you never have a fault...
 
What kind of winch and model do you have? Depending on the type of winch you have could make doing this very difficult since many of them are now using circuit boards. Some are even sealed.

I think your only option is going to be starting to take your winch apart and to see if you can find the main solenoid and then put a relay between it and the controls. Just really can't comment on how hard or how to do that without knowing the type of winch.
 
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