Is an AR rifle really ideal for home defense?
- Thread starter Chris
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ohiopatriot
TJ Enthusiast
No offense meant, it was not to be derogatory, as said I have friends that are cops, all good people, just not "gun" people, let alone experts in ballistics as was being alluded to in previous post to bolster their points.
Around here they qualify bi-annually, that's 120 rounds total.
I have a range set up on my property and they seldom shoot, even if I supply ammo. Our department is very 2A friendly. So let me define most with "in my experience and jurisdiction" of gun loving rural southern Ohio.
Here's another fun fact, most military personnel can't shoot either.
In the training classes I’ve taken (handgun I and II, CQB), the instructors commented that cops usually don’t have much training and they don’t have enough range time to be competent with their weapon. This was based on being in the business since the 70’s, post-Nam. They wished more training was required and that police departments would require more range time.
Ok.....so what you meant was....most cops in rural southern Ohio that you know can barely qualify with their weapons and only qualify bi-annually. Now that I'm okay with.
Many people think that because someone is/was LEO or Military that it automatically makes them an expert marksman or expert on firearms. Unfortunately, what my experience has found is typically a person that has not evolved with the rest of the industry and is steadfast in their outdated ways. There are of course exceptions to everything, but those exceptions have usually come from someone in a specialist role.
Our department was not the norm. We trained ... trained ..... trained and was always at the the range it seemed. From the time the Academy started to the time of retirement, it was train .. train ... train. It just made things become second nature to you in stressful situations.
Oh I agree 100%. Just because you're LEO doesn't mean you're an expert on firearms. I guess as would be a professional truck driver doesn't mean he's an expert diesel mechanic.
ohiopatriot
TJ Enthusiast
Ok, so what you meant to say was your department was not most, that I'm OK with.
I used to shoot shotgun sports competitively and for money. Thousands upon thousands of shell's worth. That nugget of wisdom can NOT be stressed enough. We did a lot of pattern testing learning what different loads would do for a particular scenario and even our skeet loads with open or improved open cylinder would pattern much tighter than we expected at close distances.
2", 12" or 22" doesn't matter as long as you take it out and shoot some patterns at the distances you think you will be shooting inside wherever you plan on using it for defense. Just learn the gun, learn the loads, learn the patterns. You are already going to have enough surprises in the event that you are attacked in your home and need to defend you and yours. Expecting your shotgun to have a 12" pattern and having it throw a 3" pattern at 15' shouldn't be another one of those surprises.What if you saw the barrel down to say 12"
That almost sounds like an outlaw statement.:risas3:What if you saw the barrel down to say 12"
its all situational as far as whats best to use. lots of good advice in this thread. use what you are comfortable with. hand guns are best for maneuverability. shot guns are ok but no need to go bigger than a 20ga. that way your wife wont drop it when she pulls the trigger the first time. ARs are a great weapon but i dont think i would clear my house with it. too slow bringing it around. too easy for someone to grab. if i was hunkered down somewhere i would sure as hell use my AR tho. the caliber debate is old and tired. if you look hard enough you can find evidence to support whatever caliber you say is best. i have heard alot that the 357 mag is the sweet spot. but i cant verify that(i do not own one). don't assume that because a cop or military person gives you firearm advice that its the absolute best advice there is. I've known too many ex military that didn't know dink about firearms. unless they were special forces they have likely spent less time with a firearm than the casual civilian enthusiast has. do your own research. use the caliber that you get the best follow up shots. you are likely to miss the first one. but whatever you decide to use put a light on it. you dont want to shoot your teenager who is just raiding the cupboards in the middle of the night. too many ppl buy guns for self defense, shoot it once then put it in a safe. this is very stupid. you will be flustered and fumbling around with it and unsure of what to do if it happens that you need it in a serious situation. it all needs to be muscle memory and you should be able to load/reload it in the dark if need be. that only happens one way
practice! practice! practice!.
practice! practice! practice!.
I dislike these conversations, because they are essentially pointless.
Use whatever trips your trigger, as it really doesn't matter all that much.
Your reaction time between having a defensive dial tone between your ears and being in the mental and physical state to defend yourself successfully is longer than you have in the vast majority of home break in / defensive situations. Or in your car, on the street or anywhere else. The physiology and psychology of being suddenly and randomly attacked is very likely to render you at least temporarily defenseless. Once you clear those hurdles you need to be able to effectively put rounds on target and be MENTALLY PREPARED, WILLING AND ABLE TO DO SO. If you are prepared in that manner you may find that you don't like yourself all that much.
A better conversation may be what you need to successfully deal with the aftermath. My recommendation is a good lawyer that specializes in defensive situations and the use of lethal force under the law, a good clergyman, and a close friend or two who you know won't abandon you in that situation.
Use whatever trips your trigger, as it really doesn't matter all that much.
Your reaction time between having a defensive dial tone between your ears and being in the mental and physical state to defend yourself successfully is longer than you have in the vast majority of home break in / defensive situations. Or in your car, on the street or anywhere else. The physiology and psychology of being suddenly and randomly attacked is very likely to render you at least temporarily defenseless. Once you clear those hurdles you need to be able to effectively put rounds on target and be MENTALLY PREPARED, WILLING AND ABLE TO DO SO. If you are prepared in that manner you may find that you don't like yourself all that much.
A better conversation may be what you need to successfully deal with the aftermath. My recommendation is a good lawyer that specializes in defensive situations and the use of lethal force under the law, a good clergyman, and a close friend or two who you know won't abandon you in that situation.
ohiopatriot
TJ Enthusiast
Agreed and precisely why I put the hammer back down and put the pistol back under the front seat. Thankfully, I had enough of a hesitation to try and contemplate the consequences of what I was about to do and decided it likely wasn't worth it even though that asshole righteously deserved it. Hearing the rest of the story later from someone in the house, I was right on both counts.
BendLarry
TJ Addict
Most folks are not prepared for a home defense situation regardless of weapon type or practice that’s why I feel that the choice of weapon should not be the weak link in the scenario. I mentioned in an earlier post that I had experienced a situation.
Maybe my story will better explain my viewpoint.
About 6 years ago, we were asleep, it was September and we had our bedroom window open. At that time we had a pickup with a camper on it parked beside the house beside our bedroom. I heard something and I woke up. We have a lot of deer and other critters around so we often hear things at night. Then there was a flash of light that hit the bedroom ceiling. I sat up and saw a large guy fiddling with a long flash light. It turned out to be the maglight that had been in my truck. I reached for my 1911 colt gold cup 45. The guy then walked up the 3 steps to get on our back deck. We have French doors leading from the deck to the living room. We also have a motion sensitive light above the door. It was on an he didn’t leave. I walked into the living room pointing the gun at his center mass. I guess the light blinded him so I could see him but he couldn’t see me. At this point I was pretty calm thinking the door was locked. To my shock and horror he started to open the door! I had one in the pipe, the safety off and my finger on the trigger. Instinctively I yelled at him louder than I ever thought I could yell. Thankfully he turned and ran. Had he took one more step after I yelled I would have pulled the trigger. There is no doubt in my mind I would have. I have asked myself many times why I didn’t yell sooner. I don’t have an answer for that. He was later contacted by another neighbor who called the cops and they got him. He was high on meth. There were many times that disturbed me about what happened, but the biggest lesson for me was things can quickly go a different direction than you may be prepared for. I will never face something like that again with a handgun. I may go to jail but my wife will be safe!
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Maybe my story will better explain my viewpoint.
About 6 years ago, we were asleep, it was September and we had our bedroom window open. At that time we had a pickup with a camper on it parked beside the house beside our bedroom. I heard something and I woke up. We have a lot of deer and other critters around so we often hear things at night. Then there was a flash of light that hit the bedroom ceiling. I sat up and saw a large guy fiddling with a long flash light. It turned out to be the maglight that had been in my truck. I reached for my 1911 colt gold cup 45. The guy then walked up the 3 steps to get on our back deck. We have French doors leading from the deck to the living room. We also have a motion sensitive light above the door. It was on an he didn’t leave. I walked into the living room pointing the gun at his center mass. I guess the light blinded him so I could see him but he couldn’t see me. At this point I was pretty calm thinking the door was locked. To my shock and horror he started to open the door! I had one in the pipe, the safety off and my finger on the trigger. Instinctively I yelled at him louder than I ever thought I could yell. Thankfully he turned and ran. Had he took one more step after I yelled I would have pulled the trigger. There is no doubt in my mind I would have. I have asked myself many times why I didn’t yell sooner. I don’t have an answer for that. He was later contacted by another neighbor who called the cops and they got him. He was high on meth. There were many times that disturbed me about what happened, but the biggest lesson for me was things can quickly go a different direction than you may be prepared for. I will never face something like that again with a handgun. I may go to jail but my wife will be safe!
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badlieutenant
TJ Addict
only if you think explaining to your wife that you shot her baby boy because you didn't have proper visual is problematic.