Is it worth swapping in a NSG370?

[chili_pepper]

no one has attempted to transfer the JK guts to a TJ case

Definitely not what I was suggesting...though there is some evidence to suggest the innards are the same or very similar. I came across a rebuild kit that listed '05-'06 TJ as well as '07-'18 JK and a number of other Dodge/Chrysler vehicles.

I was suggesting that the gearbox portion of the transmission was possibly the same, or at least similar enough to be swapped, regardless of bellhousing used to suit any particular engine. That said, given the photos I've been seeing in researching the NSG370, it would appear that part of the gearbox is actually housed within the rear portion of the (extended) bellhousing, making what I was suggesting much less likely. It's been a long time but I recall gearboxes being self contained subassemblies, this does not appear to be the case with this one, and quite possibly all (relatively) newer manuals.

 

[chili_pepper]

but the shift fork assembly and shifter will still have the same bad design

That polio derivative leg brace multi-jointed piece of crap being referred to as a shift fork

Only the Germans would come up with something like that (and I'm betting the asshole who designed it is really proud of himself). I didn't know exactly what you were referring to when you replied, but seeing it in the video @97' 4 Popper just posted, all makes sense now...calling this thing a piece of shit isn't strong enough...

 

[JKP]

Definitely not what I was suggesting...though there is some evidence to suggest the innards are the same or very similar. I came across a rebuild kit that listed '05-'06 TJ as well as '07-'18 JK and a number of other Dodge/Chrysler vehicles.

I was suggesting that the gearbox portion of the transmission was possibly the same, or at least similar enough to be swapped, regardless of bellhousing used to suit any particular engine. That said, given the photos I've been seeing in researching the NSG370, it would appear that part of the gearbox is actually housed within the rear portion of the (extended) bellhousing, making what I was suggesting much less likely. It's been a long time but I recall gearboxes being self contained subassemblies, this does not appear to be the case with this one, and quite possibly all (relatively) newer manuals.

There is no separate bellhousing on a 370, it's part of the case.

 

[Steel City 06]

Maybe we just need to beg Eaton to come out with a miniature version of their 18-speed manuals.

14.40:1 in low gear, 0.73 in top gear. Four reverse speeds. PTO would certainly be nice as well.

 

[williambmac]

At the point in time when I have perused nearly all the internet has to offer and the only thing left are Mercedes forums where the owners rejoice over their sad choices in vehicle ownership, that will be the day when I have reached the end of the 'net's useful nature and will then sign off. Until then, we can at least attempt to stay in context and lament the woes of that piece of shit transmission that is the NSG370.

When something can be discussed without the "but", that is how we know it is good. This is not that.

The four biggest POS on the market are.... BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Land Rover. However, I do like having a 6 speed. Actually, running 35's with 5.38's I wish I had an 8 speed on the highway. I run out of gear.

 

[bubbashubbs]

I’ve started a hell of a thread lol. All excellent advice and info. Thank you everyone. NSG370 will be on the bucket list soon. It’s honestly easier for me to get my hands on one of those than a NV2550 distance wise.

 

[chili_pepper]

I’ve started a hell of a thread lol.

You have, indeed, and you likely had no idea how it would, uh, fester. That said, best of luck with your planned swap.

Speaking of swaps and the NSG370, a hypothetical for everyone participating...

Let's say you have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (non-Rubicon) with ~114k on the clock in quite good mechanical and structural shape, and with the much-loved NSG370 transmission backing up the powerplant. And let's say that, gearbox niggles aside, you're quite fond of this vehicle and plan on keeping it for the long haul. While the aforementioned transmission is currently functional, for the sake of long term use and reliability, you're considering a swap. Intention is to swap the transmission only, keeping the NP231 transfer case. No immediate need or emergency for the swap, so you can make solid plans and acquire the necessary bits to affect a swap over time. Going on the assumption that either the AX15 or NVG3550 are the best options to consider for cost and compatibility reasons, which of these two makes the most sense/would be the best choice, assuming normal utility usage of the vehicle?

 

[JMT]

You have, indeed, and you likely had no idea how it would, uh, fester. That said, best of luck with your planned swap.

Speaking of swaps and the NSG370, a hypothetical for everyone participating...

Let's say you have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (non-Rubicon) with ~114k on the clock in quite good mechanical and structural shape, and with the much-loved NSG370 transmission backing up the powerplant. And let's say that, gearbox niggles aside, you're quite fond of this vehicle and plan on keeping it for the long haul. While the aforementioned transmission is currently functional, for the sake of long term use and reliability, you're considering a swap. Intention is to swap the transmission only, keeping the NP231 transfer case. No immediate need or emergency for the swap, so you can make solid plans and acquire the necessary bits to affect a swap over time. Going on the assumption that either the AX15 or NVG3550 are the best options to consider for cost and compatibility reasons, which of these two makes the most sense/would be the best choice, assuming normal utility usage of the vehicle?

42rle

 

[chili_pepper]

42rle

Allow me to nip this in the bud, automatic gearboxes are not an option. I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle I did if I had any desire to own one. I despise them with a passion.

The options are as outlined, manual only, AX15 or NVG3550.

 

[ColoJeep]

Allow me to nip this in the bud, automatic gearboxes are not an option. I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle I did if I had any desire to own one. I despise them with a passion.

The options are as outlined, manual only, AX15 or NVG3550.

We own both the AX-15 and the NVG 3550 in TJ's. I prefer the AX-15 all day long. Additionally you can buy a brand new AX-15.

 

[chili_pepper]

Additionally you can buy a brand new AX-15.

I noticed this, certainly scores extra points. I believe this particular box also had a much longer life span in the Jeep and is well regarded as being a solid design.

 

[machoheadgames]

You have, indeed, and you likely had no idea how it would, uh, fester. That said, best of luck with your planned swap.

Speaking of swaps and the NSG370, a hypothetical for everyone participating...

Let's say you have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (non-Rubicon) with ~114k on the clock in quite good mechanical and structural shape, and with the much-loved NSG370 transmission backing up the powerplant. And let's say that, gearbox niggles aside, you're quite fond of this vehicle and plan on keeping it for the long haul. While the aforementioned transmission is currently functional, for the sake of long term use and reliability, you're considering a swap. Intention is to swap the transmission only, keeping the NP231 transfer case. No immediate need or emergency for the swap, so you can make solid plans and acquire the necessary bits to affect a swap over time. Going on the assumption that either the AX15 or NVG3550 are the best options to consider for cost and compatibility reasons, which of these two makes the most sense/would be the best choice, assuming normal utility usage of the vehicle?

I would choose the AX15 over the NV3550. The gearing is mostly the same except reverse on AX is significantly lower. 1st is a teensy bit lower on NV. AX15 is known to shift more smoothly and be less noisy, while the NV sounds like a bucket of rocks and doesn’t shift as smoothly. Lastly of course as everyone knows, the AX15 can be found brand new while the NV is long discontinued and the only parts to freshen them up are junk offshore parts. Just seems like the smart solution is to go AX15.

Some will say the NV is stronger. Not really. It was officially rated to 300 ft lbs while the AX15 was not rated or at least not advertised. They both live up to about the same abuse.

The worst part about swapping to either of these is the inner shift boot solution. This puts you back in the 03-04 boot territory since the tub is different from 03+. The 03-04 boot is long discontinued, hard to find, and overpriced if you do find it. I also do think 6 forward ratios are ideal for any engine vs having only 5, but sometimes the build and shift quality of the transmission are more important. In the case of the NSG370, that seems to be the case.

 

[mrblaine]

I noticed this, certainly scores extra points. I believe this particular box also had a much longer life span in the Jeep and is well regarded as being a solid design.

That is a big "yeah, whatever". Few folks, a scant few work on more TJ's than I do and have. I've swapped them back and forth between most OEM trans combos you can think of, one for the other and back again and none other than the glaringly stupid NSG 370 on the manual side and the equally dumb AW-4 on the auto side are options I won't do.

Guess which ones show up with a bad manual trans that need replaced or rebuilt due to some inherent flaw or high mileage? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the AX-15 or NV3550.

Further, I have on occasion purchased all the take out parts to do the conversion from owners after a swap to an auto. I carefully placed ALL the parts in one little pile so I have a nifty neato swap package ready to go in case I run across someone willing to buy them who is in need. That has turned out to be a pretty dumb way to do things since I have yet to ever sell one. The only person who has ever talked me out of a manual to fix a problem was due to slamming his on a rock and breaking the case.

 

[mrblaine]

I would choose the AX15 over the NV3550. The gearing is mostly the same except reverse on AX is significantly lower. 1st is a teensy bit lower on NV. AX15 is known to shift more smoothly and be less noisy, while the NV sounds like a bucket of rocks and doesn’t shift as smoothly. Lastly of course as everyone knows, the AX15 can be found brand new while the NV is long discontinued and the only parts to freshen them up are junk offshore parts. Just seems like the smart solution is to go AX15.

Some will say the NV is stronger. Not really. It was officially rated to 300 ft lbs while the AX15 was not rated or at least not advertised. They both live up to about the same abuse.

The worst part about swapping to either of these is the inner shift boot solution. This puts you back in the 03-04 boot territory since the tub is different from 03+. The 03-04 boot is long discontinued, hard to find, and overpriced if you do find it. I also do think 6 forward ratios are ideal for any engine vs having only 5, but sometimes the build and shift quality of the transmission are more important. In the case of the NSG370, that seems to be the case.

Isn't the only difference in the tub due to switching over to extruded U nuts and away from just sheet metal screws to hold on the shifter floor plate?

 

[Zorba]

Allow me to nip this in the bud, automatic gearboxes are not an option. I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle I did if I had any desire to own one. I despise them with a passion.

The options are as outlined, manual only, AX15 or NVG3550.

Automatics are an answer to a question few were asking. They have their place, but the American love affair with automatics annoys me. If it were me, I'd stick with the NSG - the rebuilt ones reputedly don't have the problems we're all familiar with - and - despite its 1st gear not being low enough, its lower than the others mentioned. With that said, the NVG3550 has a lower 1st than the much vaunted AX15 - for whatever that's worth.

If I need to rebuild mine, I am going to pursue the possibility the so-called "wide ratio" version - if I can find anyone who has the parts and knowledge which may be impossible as the thing is apparently unicorn tears.

 

[chili_pepper]

That is a big "yeah, whatever". Few folks, a scant few work on more TJ's than I do and have. I've swapped them back and forth between most OEM trans combos you can think of, one for the other and back again and none other than the glaringly stupid NSG 370 on the manual side and the equally dumb AW-4 on the auto side are options I won't do.

Guess which ones show up with a bad manual trans that need replaced or rebuilt due to some inherent flaw or high mileage? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the AX-15 or NV3550.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying there isn't much in it for one over the other (are we speaking functionally, financially or both?). I certainly don't know enough to question what you're saying and I understand you to be a man with quite a bit of knowledge on these vehicles, but I do wonder why the NV3550 was only used from '00-'04. As well, I have to wonder why the AX-15 survived quite a bit longer and still seems to have support in the fact that they can be had new to this day. Maybe just a mental exercise, and I accept it's quite possible that the NV3550 was replaced with the NSG370 via some bullshit corporate decision and was in no way due to issues with the former.

Guess which ones show up with a bad manual trans that need replaced or rebuilt due to some inherent flaw or high mileage? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the AX-15 or NV3550.

Assuming that someone, let's say a regular and valued customer of yours, has come to you wanting to replace an NSG370 and doesn't want to go auto, as it seems some would suggest as the proper course of action, do you/would you ever recommend one over the other or just leave that up to the owner of the vehicle?

Further, I have on occasion purchased all the take out parts to do the conversion from owners after a swap to an auto. I carefully placed ALL the parts in one little pile so I have a nifty neato swap package ready to go in case I run across someone willing to buy them who is in need. That has turned out to be a pretty dumb way to do things since I have yet to ever sell one.

Maybe I could be your first customer, assuming you've still got a stash to liquidate...

My NSG370 is currently serviceable, albeit a mild irritant, but I can potentially foresee a point in the future where I might get the royal shits of dealing with its inherent issues. I've only had my LJ for about 7 months but I've already grown quite attached to it. Just trying to do a little planning for the future.

Automatics are an answer to a question few were asking. They have their place, but the American love affair with automatics annoys me.

I'm with you there, but to each their own. Unless I lose the use of my left leg, I'm just not interested. I've preferred manuals since I learned to drive one at the age of 15.

I'd stick with the NSG - the rebuilt ones reputedly don't have the problems we're all familiar with

As the only 6 speed available, this would be the preferred course of action, but the associated cost and potential for the same issues to arise concern me. The costs would seem to be quite a bit higher relative to something like an AX-15 based on initial research.

 

[Zorba]

As the only 6 speed available, this would be the preferred course of action, but the associated cost and potential for the same issues to arise concern me. The costs would seem to be quite a bit higher relative to something like an AX-15 based on initial research.

I hear you. Myself, I'd be cussing the mediocre 1st gear in the AX-15 every time I drove the thing - despite the NSG's being inadequate as well, just less so. It really does come down to the "Elvish Answer", doesn't it?

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances!

 

[Zorba]

...Unless I lose the use of my left leg, I'm just not interested. I've preferred manuals since I learned to drive one at the age of 15.

Same here - my parents didn't even own an automatic equipped vehicle until I was almost 19 years old. My dad's knees were giving out, he didn't want to clutch the old GMC any more - although it took him quite a while to make peace with the idea of an automatic in a truck.

 

[mrblaine]

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying there isn't much in it for one over the other (are we speaking functionally, financially or both?). I certainly don't know enough to question what you're saying and I understand you to be a man with quite a bit of knowledge on these vehicles, but I do wonder why the NV3550 was only used from '00-'04. As well, I have to wonder why the AX-15 survived quite a bit longer and still seems to have support in the fact that they can be had new to this day. Maybe just a mental exercise, and I accept it's quite possible that the NV3550 was replaced with the NSG370 via some bullshit corporate decision and was in no way due to issues with the former.

Mercedes or more correctly, Daimler purchased Chrysler and that was when the NV was dropped in favor of that piece of mechanical poo that is the 370. The failure or attrition rate for the first year and a half of production was very high. They finally got the bugs worked out somewhat so they at least made it out of warranty, but I knew several that had them, none of them were immune from issues.

Assuming that someone, let's say a regular and valued customer of yours, has come to you wanting to replace an NSG370 and doesn't want to go auto, as it seems some would suggest as the proper course of action, do you/would you ever recommend one over the other or just leave that up to the owner of the vehicle?

Pick which ever one blows your skirt up, I don't see an issue with either one.

Maybe I could be your first customer, assuming you've still got a stash to liquidate...

My NSG370 is currently serviceable, albeit a mild irritant, but I can potentially foresee a point in the future where I might get the royal shits of dealing with its inherent issues. I've only had my LJ for about 7 months but I've already grown quite attached to it. Just trying to do a little planning for the future.

Possible, not probable since the current package is for the 03-04 which would be my preferred swap for now.

I'm with you there, but to each their own. Unless I lose the use of my left leg, I'm just not interested. I've preferred manuals since I learned to drive one at the age of 15.



As the only 6 speed available, this would be the preferred course of action, but the associated cost and potential for the same issues to arise concern me. The costs would seem to be quite a bit higher relative to something like an AX-15 based on initial research.

We all like what we like. I don't let what is in the rig dictate value since I can change it to however I want it to be.

If your TJ Unlimited trivia knowledge is up to snuff, then this makes sense.

 

[machoheadgames]

Isn't the only difference in the tub due to switching over to extruded U nuts and away from just sheet metal screws to hold on the shifter floor plate?

You would know better than me, but when I look at the floor plate for 97-02 vs 03-04/05-06, the later model looks narrower and like the screws/bolts are in different locations.

So can you actually use the early stuff on a later tub? The 4-screw 97-02 shift boot would be ideal for anyone in that case because you can still buy them.