Jezza's Ford 6R80 Transmission Swap

[Jezza]

Hey folks. I thought I would continue the thread from the general section over here as it has become less of a tech question and more of a build. A quick recap up to this point. I picked up a broken 6R80 locally to do some fitment testing and start designing a pattern for an adapter from the 4.0 Jeep engine to the Ford 6R80 transmission. As far as I can tell there has not been a 6R80 behind a 4.0l as of yet. If there has and anyone has any info it would be most appreciated. I also ordered a low mileage unit off eBay and thought it would be weeks before receiving it but, it showed up three days later. So I now have 2 transmissions and 2 torque convertors. I also picked up a flywheel from a 32rh as I will probably incorporate that into the adapter process. I will probably also need to mount a crank sensor into the adapter as well as I will need it to operate the tach, and for emissions. I have had an Atlas transfer case on order since May and have already spoken with them and changed the Atlas to have the 6R80 input shaft and adapter. Length is the really concerning issue. I measured my current NV3550 at 24.5" long from bellhousing flange to transfer case flange. The 6R80 is 23.75" from flange to flange, but has to have a 3.625" long adapter from the 6R80 to the Atlas. Not to mention the .5-1.0" adapter plate between the 4.0 and the 6R80.

 

[Jezza]

I lucked out a bit on the adapter plate. I was able to find some information online that was incredibly helpful. First I found a dimensional drawing of the 4.0l bellhousing pattern with the crankshaft centerline. I then compared that to another drawing I had that is dimensionally correct, but without the dimensions, and they matched perfectly. I also found a model of a Ford Coyote 5.0l engine that was uploaded by Ford Racing. That has the exact dimensions of the Ford 6R80 bellhousing bolt pattern with crank centerline as well. So without even breaking out the CMM I have a rough idea of what the adapter will look like. I being a bit OCD will also do a CMM scan of all the parts I have as well to confirm the data. I will also either 3d print the adapter or cut one from MDF or sign-board on my CNC router to confirm fitment before cutting a $200 chunk of 7075. I also need to locate the starter and starter mount holes in the plate. On the Jeeps they bolt to the transmission, and I don't have a Jeep transmission out to take measurements from. I do have a motor plate sitting here, but I don't know how accurately those are cut. It is only a starter though and some slop is already built into the design.

 

[Jezza]

This is the 6R80 to Atlas adapter that Advance Adapters is having me use.

https://www.advanceadapters.com/6r80-to-atlas-adapter

 

[Jezza]

I also found a model of an Atlas. Now if I had a model of the 6R80 and 4.0 I could assemble the whole thing in CAD...

 

[IJK]

Interesting, keep us advised of your progress.

 

[Trevlaw]

Just a wild ass guess, but is that atlas adapter the only solution? I know for certain years of 4l60e advance adapters can machine the atlas to bolt directly to the transmission with a special output shaft swapped into the 4l60e, no adapter needed between the two at all.

Just wondering if something like that might be possible with this trans as 3.625" is quite a bit of driveshaft length to lose depending on what your plans for the suspension are later on. If it's mostly a street rig then it might not be a big deal.

 

[Jezza]

Console shifter showed up this morning. I got a stock F150 unit that will have the proper detents and cable connection. It seems like the easiest option as the transmission has 4 forward positions not 3 like everything else. Also the pivot to arm ratio should be correct so the cable moves the proper amount. It also has an up and down shift button as well as tow haul that I should be able to wire into the Quick 6 controller for those functions. It also mounts flat with bolt holes so mounting it shouldn't be too difficult. I may have to cut the console a bit and make a filler panel, but that shouldn't be difficult.

 

[Apparition]

Console shifter showed up this morning. I got a stock F150 unit that will have the proper detents and cable connection. It seems like the easiest option as the transmission has 4 forward positions not 3 like everything else. Also the pivot to arm ratio should be correct so the cable moves the proper amount. It also has an up and down shift button as well as tow haul that I should be able to wire into the Quick 6 controller for those functions. It also mounts flat with bolt holes so mounting it shouldn't be too difficult. I may have to cut the console a bit and make a filler panel, but that shouldn't be difficult.

View attachment 351235

Will you be able to use the +/- to lock out upper gears? Like in the F150's

 

[Jezza]

Will you be able to use the +/- to lock out upper gears? Like in the F150's

The Quick 6 controller has options for simple paddle shifting. That's what I was planning on using the buttons for. We'll and maybe wired in series with some paddles on the steering wheel, because why not.

 

[Cross-Threaded-06TJ]

I approve of everything happening in this thread and the other thread you made on this swap. Can't wait to see this happen. I'm not going to talk you out of it.....

Your Shop looks good in the pic I saw of it. I Worked in a machine shop for a while, making parts for firearms. I ran an okuma mb4000.

 

[B00mb00m]

I also found a model of an Atlas. Now if I had a model of the 6R80 and 4.0 I could assemble the whole thing in CAD...

View attachment 350982

This is awesome, love to see the progress

 

[B00mb00m]

This is the 6R80 to Atlas adapter that Advance Adapters is having me use.

https://www.advanceadapters.com/6r80-to-atlas-adapter

View attachment 350934

That’s one advantage the W5A580 has over the 6R80 is the atlas bolts up

 

[Jezza]

Woops one of them fell apart.

The "E" or overdrive clutch was toast, but the drum pressure tested fine, so it's not cracked. I'll need new frictions and steels for that one and toss it back together as a spare.

 

[Jezza]

Quick 6 controller showed up today. They originally quoted 30 days and it came in about half that.

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

Hey so I've got a Ford 6r80 in my TJ Wrangler, along with a Volkswagen BEW TDI, I got an adapter made for the engine to the transmission and an adapter for the 6r80 to my NP231. I had to get a new 31-spline input shaft from Northwest Fab I believe (I need to double check that). I would recommend the Lokar shifter for it, it's expensive but WELL worth the investment. Also realize it will shift HORRIBLY until it gets to either 160° or 170° at which point the computer will start learning.

This transmission is a BEAST when it comes to wheeling and on the road driving as well. Engine braking like a manual and two overdrives for better gearing for the highway and interstate.

Also get the BIGGEST transmission cooler you can and put it in your grill. I had issues with mine getting too hot and had to get a Mustang 2011 ~ 2014 6r80 cooler and make it fit between my intercooler and radiator get my temperatures under control, these transmission produce a TON of heat!

Can't wait to see how this transmission does with the 4.0l engine!

*EDIT*
Here are some pictures

-Grant

 

[Jezza]

I

Hey so I've got a Ford 6r80 in my TJ Wrangler, along with a Volkswagen BEW TDI, I got an adapter made for the engine to the transmission and an adapter for the 6r80 to my NP231. I had to get a new 31-spline input shaft from Northwest Fab I believe (I need to double check that). I would recommend the Lokar shifter for it, it's expensive but WELL worth the investment. Also realize it will shift HORRIBLY until it gets to either 160° or 170° at which point the computer will start learning.

This transmission is a BEAST when it comes to wheeling and on the road driving as well. Engine braking like a manual and two overdrives for better gearing for the highway and interstate.

Also get the BIGGEST transmission cooler you can and put it in your grill. I had issues with mine getting too hot and had to get a Mustang 2011 ~ 2014 6r80 cooler and make it fit between my intercooler and radiator get my temperatures under control, these transmission produce a TON of heat!

Can't wait to see how this transmission does with the 4.0l engine!

*EDIT*
Here are some pictures

View attachment 352888

View attachment 352889

View attachment 352890

-Grant

Very nice!! My folks have had 3 of those diesel VWs. That's a tough little engine. How does it shift once it warms up? Is it similar to a stock trans, or still a bit firm? Did you have Quick 6 pre-program the unit? If so what HP did you have them set it up for? Also, how does the larger bellhousing fit in the Wrangler tunnel? It looks bigger compared to the NV3550 I have. Was length an issue for you? Sorry for all the questions I'm naturally curious. I looked at the Lokar shifter. It looks like a nice unit, but I couldn't justify the price. The F150 one I bought was $75 and I can be cheap. I am going to have to remote mount the cooler, probably back by the driveshaft in the rear. I found a Derale unit with fans that boasts 37,000 btu/hr.
https://derale.com/product-footer/f...unt2013-10-28-09-53-271226240719/13740-detail
I was hoping that cooler would be enough. I don't have the space in the front with the intercooler heat exchanger I am running.

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

Very nice!! My folks have had 3 of those diesel VWs. That's a tough little engine. How does it shift once it warms up? Is it similar to a stock trans, or still a bit firm? Did you have Quick 6 pre-program the unit? If so what HP did you have them set it up for? Also, how does the larger bellhousing fit in the Wrangler tunnel? It looks bigger compared to the NV3550 I have. Was length an issue for you? Sorry for all the questions I'm naturally curious. I looked at the Lokar shifter. It looks like a nice unit, but I couldn't justify the price. The F150 one I bought was $75 and I can be cheap. I am going to have to remote mount the cooler, probably back by the driveshaft in the rear. I found a Derale unit with fans that boasts 37,000 btu/hr.
https://derale.com/product-footer/f...unt2013-10-28-09-53-271226240719/13740-detail
I was hoping that cooler would be enough. I don't have the space in the front with the intercooler heat exchanger I am running.

Going to try to answer everything in order.

So the shifting is great once the transmission has time to learn the gearing but that takes a while, like I said it need to be warm before it can learn the timing. The more I drive it the better the shifting gets. Originally it was barking tires with the 1-2 shift, I'm really glad that shift has gotten softer.

In terms of how it compares to the stock transmission, hard to say, both kind of? You can tune the transmission for shift firmness based on throttle percentage, I have my on the soft side right now, but you can make it firm as well.

I setup the Quick6 for under 450hp, I've only got a Stage 2 tune on my BEW TDI, so I'm at 150hp and around 252ft/lbs of torque I believe.

I can't really give any information on the tunnel with the bell-housing as I moved the TDI engine forward in the engine bay 7" so I could have a longer rear driveshaft and make it easier to get all bell housing bolts and make room for the vacuum pump on the backside of the head of my TDI engine. Because of this length was not an issue.

So that cooler does not have a big enough diameter to cool the transmission. You need to have a ½ ID minimum for the flow of transmission fluid. You're going to need a -8an minimum so this would be the cooler you would need : 19 Row Hyper-Cool Dual Cool Remote Cooler, -8AN

I hope that cooler will be enough, these Ford 6r80 produce a ton of heat. Let me know if you need any other information or pictures.

I'll be following this thread closely! I'm curious to see how the 4.0l does with a granny low first gear and two overdrives!

Thanks
Grant

 

[Jezza]

Wow, 7" is a nice bonus in the length. Length is probably going to be an issue for me. Maybe also the bellhousing diameter. The 6R is bigger. Good call on the cooler. I don't have any cooler lines on the trans yet. I was thinking 3/8" I didn't realize that they were 1/2".

 

[Jezza]

I took some pics to compare the 6R80 to the NV-3550 when I had my engine out. No major realizations, but interesting enough.

 

[Jezza]

I thought maybe I could measure the separator plate when my engine was out the other day. It turns out that the separator plate is not very precise. It looks like the holes are punched and stamped probably all at once. I guess I am going to have to haul a block up there and measure the pattern from that.