Kubota V2203-DI swap into 1999 SE, planning stage

StG58

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Two other threads on here got me to thinking about a Kubota swap into my 1999 SE. Both are by Grant ( @disjaukifa ) and are way better threads than this one will ever be. He's got video!

Anyway, after a hat tip to Grant, here we go.

I've talked about the typical trail conditions around here before. Here they are again just to let you know what I'm looking at. Here on the wet side of the PNW the trails are typically tight, steep and slick. Not a lot of huge rocks around, but you do run into some that are hub height. Same way with ledges. Water crossings are a no-no, you get spanked hard for that if you get caught. Snotty mud is everywhere, but it's rarely deep. The speed limit on the Freeways is typically 65 or 70. Temperatures can range from 0 to 100 degrees F with only very rare excursions outside of that. 35 to 85 is pretty normal. Rain, lots of rain. Snow in the mountains six months out of the year and a week or two a year in the valleys. Again, it's usually snotty wet snow that can be feet deep. So there ya go. The design conditions or envelope.

I spend a lot of time in the puckerbrush. Sometimes a week to ten days at once. Range is an issue, so is reliability. It's a long hard walk to anywhere if something goes amiss. Forget cell phone service. You have to be self sufficient and carry all your gear with you.

That brings us to the SE. Right now it's small, nimble and light. It does great in these conditions. It's simple and reliable. Easy to fix with not many moving parts to break. Perfect! Right? But, can it be better?
 
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So why am I looking into and planning a Kubota swap if the SE is so perfect? There's several reasons that combined together make this worth looking into.

The 2.5 manual, with it's AX-5 transmission can suck at certain times with anything bigger than stock tires. Especially if you have to crawl a steep, tight trail with your full load-out on. Into low range you go, even if you don't need four wheel drive. It's irritating. The 2.5 just doesn't have any bottom end to speak of. And I spend a lot of time on steep, tight trails. A regear is the only answer. Especially with the planned 32x11.50-15 tires. There's other solutions, but I'm going to ignore them for the moment.

The AX-5 is not a robust transmission. You can break it on the street pretty easily. So, I was planning on replacing it anyway at some point with an AX-15. That also means messing with the np231 transfer case to make it mate up.

A lot of the electronics and other bits in all TJ's are getting harder to find. Luckily, or unluckily as it were, most of these hard to replace parts are drive train related. Electronics are de debble! Give me straight up old school mechanical every time. Except for fuel injection and spark management. That's good stuff, right there.

At 120,000 miles or so a lot of small things could really use a refresh on the SE to maintain it's reliability.

The SE is at a point right now where the decision needs to be made on the drive train before I go much further on the mod list. Keep the 2.5 and continue the planned upgrades, knowing that from here on out they go away if I change the engine out at some further date, or do a conversion and just keep on trucking along without having to replace perfectly good parts that no longer fit.

Range. Right now the SE will go about 300 miles between fuel stops. That's with an extra five gallons of fuel along. I could really use better range.

So there you have it. The reasons the SE isn't my perfect rig. The question is, what can be done about that?
 
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A quick note on the legality of swapping in a Kubota, or any engine, into a TJ. Bottom line, it isn't. Federal or in the State of Oregon. There's some hefty fines involved if some bureaucrat takes an interest in your project. Will you get popped? Probably not. Do your own due diligence though.
 
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I say stick with your stock faithful 4 cylinder, it hasn't let you down yet has it? You know what needs to be replaced and when right now. What unknown things will happen when you put in a diesel engine in your Jeep?
 
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I say stick with your stock faithful 4 cylinder, it hasn't let you down yet has it? You know what needs to be replaced and when right now. What unknown things will happen when you put in a diesel engine in your Jeep?

Nope, it's never come close to letting me down yet. It will though. It's only a matter of time. I've replaced one ECM already, and because of design flaws in the circuit board, it'll die again eventually. Then what? Various sensors need replacing, and one in particular is hard to come by. The little pressure sensor on the power steering line that tells the ECM to kick the RPM's up at certain times. Very 2.5 specific.

What happens when you decide to sell your Jeep?

Lol, you don't want to buy a used car from me, let alone a 4x4. They are used up and headed to the bone yard by the time I'm done with them.

Good questions though. And worth some thought!
 
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How heavy and noisey is the diesel?

So older diesels are heavy and noise, the V2203-DI is actually pretty quite with no muffler and very smooth as well. Also the V2203-DI, a 2.2L 4 cylinder engine, weighs in right at 396lbs. When you remove the insanely heavy flywheel, you drop the weight down even more.

Also the 03 series of Kubota diesel engines has very modern mechanical diesel injection system which is very robust!

Between the small size, light weight, smooth quite diesel operation, and great fuel consumption, it's a great candidate for a swap.

-Grant
 
The biggest issue I see with any engine swap is repairability down the road. Say you do break down out in the boonies. If you've got a relatively stock rig, you've got a puncher's chance to get a spare either brought to you, you walk and get it or someone happens by that might have it.

Swap the engine and all of a sudden, you've got many more parts specific to YOUR rig. If you use a common swap candidate, like an LS, then maybe you luck into someone having something to get you running again.

Swap that Kubota in and you better pack every spare part you need every time. No one is going to have anything for that engine in the boonies.
 
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The biggest issue I see with any engine swap is repairability down the road. Say you do break down out in the boonies. If you've got a relatively stock rig, you've got a puncher's chance to get a spare either brought to you, you walk and get it or someone happens by that might have it.

Swap the engine and all of a sudden, you've got many more parts specific to YOUR rig. If you use a common swap candidate, like an LS, then maybe you luck into someone having something to get you running again.

Swap that Kubota in and you better pack every spare part you need every time. No one is going to have anything for that engine in the boonies.
I live in agricultural country. There are almost more Kubota dealers and mechanics than there are bars and churches. The 2203 is used in everything from skid loaders to irrigation pumps to combines and tractors. Parts aren't a huge deal here. Nor is diesel fuel.
 
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I live in agricultural country. There are almost more Kubota dealers and mechanics than there are bars and churches. The 2203 is used in everything from skid loaders to irrigation pumps to combines and tractors. Parts aren't a huge deal here. Nor is diesel fuel.
Fair enough. Proceed :)
 
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Well as far as reliability, will swapping another engine improve reliability?
-Maybe, depends on depth of planning, knowledge of engine (history), transmission, tcase, axles, etc. Rebuilt can certainly be hit or miss and there's so many factors involved.

-If you go diesel whether common rail or mechanical, they'll both almost always get you home, in ways gas engines won't. Blow a head gasket, stretch a head stud, leaky radiator, crack the block, ECU fails, most sensors fail, Turbo fails, they'll still run (unfortunately sometimes you won't even notice until you do something that requires a lot more power from the engine). Sometimes though a lift pump (if needed) or something, can go out and you're stuck, but I think these normally give warning and most of that stuff outlasts their gas counterparts. Some gas engines, especially inline 6s will run with some fairly noticeable damage.
-Diesel fuel is better to deal with and easier on components (it's kind of a light oil) and you don't have to worry about burning your Jeep down as much, since the fuel isn't flammable rather combustible.
-Environmentally, stored diesel doesn't have many of the problems gas has from vapors. The problem with diesel is when it's burned is that we used to have sulfur in diesel and that is fairly harsh (sulfur diesel will come out the tailpipe with sulphites/sulphates and can get into the atmosphere and dissolved in moisture that's natural in the air and you get acidic rain and in high concentrations, this is pretty bad), but it's not as bad as something like wood heating without a catalyst as far as volume of stuff that goes into acid rain. The other problem with diesel is that when combustion becomes very thermally efficient, you start producing VOCs (same general category as stuff in gasoline vapors, hair spray, perfume, a thousand other things) that are bad for people in extreme doses ie if a lab rat is exercising and inhaling ONLY diesel exhaust then there are signs of lung damage. Note: according to CA testing, VOCs are much higher indoors than outdoors and diesel is almost non-existent in air quality testing ie the car regs are actually doing a pretty good job, but maybe we are bit on the extreme side of gasoline vehicles, especially if you're interested in the Carbon debate.
-Most diesel engines, when geared properly and have enough torque for the application without getting too massive, will do much better for volumetric efficiency compared to gasoline, especially the 2.5L. I'd expect at least 40% increase in MPG for a diesel. So if you've got the 19 gal tank and 5 gal spare, then it'll be like having an extra 10 gal of fuel, but in off-road conditions, maybe more like 12+ or maybe just run the 19 gal and you'll still be ahead and save 40 lbs and some space.
-Diesel engines can handle more fuel variants, especially mechanically injected diesel engines, but the newer and more precise, high pressure the injection system is, the less variance until you may damage something and mechanical injection on diesels are typically more expensive to rebuild compared to common-rail, which is expensive too.
-Of course a bad pulley or water pump, etc could go out and you could be stuck. The nice thing about the Jeep is that I can go to most Auto parts stores and fix that stuff in the parking lot. And I've had weird noises in the past, when travelling for work and on my lunch break prevent a situation that would require me to be towed.
Cost?
-The cost of these swaps in hours and money is a bit high relative to keeping your current engine. Vs another vehicle then you get a big ol' depends.
-I don't consider resale, since I'm not going to sale. Plus vehicles are mostly just a loss anyway.
-It's hard to put a price on something that practically doesn't exist and few want to get into someone else's project.

Jeeps are great, but there are more options out there. The Hilux from overseas comes to my mind (do you want something designed for an expansive network of high quality roads, or for what you're ACTUALLY wanting to do? They've got one of the best diesels too, just gotta wait 25 years to start the process).

I think your transfer case makes more of a difference in your kind of conditions than most people give credit. A lower ratio would give you more torque for obstacles, control and going slow often increases traction (static vs kinetic friction). Going fast and trying to burn your way through something is a great way to lose control, but it can be fun and sometimes necessary. With worn out tires in with my truck in 4-Hi, it's almost useless off-road, but 4-Lo and I'm making it through much more stuff and when I get stuck, it's only 1 axle rather than 2. I haven't had anything with a crawl ratio under 60ish:1, with ~32" (use this for crawl speed) tires, but it's night and day vs the 32ish:1 of the TJ (with 29s-33s), which IMO is almost a waste of time. I have no experience with a ratio higher than the truck, but I'd imagine it wouldn't hurt, but may get annoying if it's your only option.

Also with a light vehicle, I prefer a more narrow tire in the slippery stuff, but can't comment on rocky stuff. I've never been stuck so much as when I had 33x12.5s, but admittedly the tread sucked, so maybe coincidence.

Unless you really love your Jeep and want a diesel, then stick to what you've got or sell it and get something else if you think it'll do better. Gas cans are cheap. Gear changes are relatively cheap too. If you enjoy being out more than wrenching, planning, fabricating, or you don't have a bunch of money to have someone do that for you, then that's another reason to stick with what you got. I've barely been able to get out and do anything fun, besides a few hunting trips, in order to work on my Jeep and just plain life/work stuff in the last year. That's not all the swap's fault and it's not all bad because I do enjoy it, but time is finite. I've spent years wanting a Jeep precisely as I want it to be built and exactly how I want it outfitted. Now there's only about 10-15 things left to do on the Jeep build and years to finish them.

Maybe run it until it's complete blown, get something similar and then you've got a project vehicle where you can take your time gathering components. I've planted a lot of projects, so my leash has become kind of short with the wife.