Leaky Oil or Coolant?

[PStov98TJ]

Edit for anyone who has this problem in the future:

I went out to my Jeep, turned it on, put my arm through the window and turned the steering back and forth enough to stress the system just a bit, until I could tell the RPM's kicked up. Sure enough, a little drop of fluid came out around the switch. Went to auto zone, got a replacement for $37 and that did the trick. Read the whole thread for all the information.


A quick synopsis of symptoms:
-Very slight burning smell after heavy acceleration
-Engine appears to be covered in some liquid, but doesn't seem thick enough to be oil
-No puddles of oil or coolant under Jeep after sitting overnight
-Heat is greatly diminished (although I think this is due to a clogged heater core)

Full story:
I can mod my jeep and turn wrenches all day, but when it comes to engine problems, I'm lost. I've been smelling a very slight burning smell lately. Usually only after I have to really get on the gas...which with a 2.5L is slightly more frequent than normal. I'm wondering what I need to look for the help solve this problem. I can get pictures of the engine and oil pan if that will help.

There haven't been any pools of oil or coolant under the jeep when I get in it in the morning. But the engine block is very dirty and seems wet (for lack of a better term) on the top as well as some components near the engine like hoses. Forgive my ignorance if this is normal. I've looked at the engine hundreds of times, but when something is wrong I tend to notice things I may have skipped over before, whether they're related to the problem or not.

In the interest of full disclosure, a few months ago I did have to replace my radiator. The cap blew off one night while I was driving. I didn't have the time to take care of it myself, but the shop I took it to did a full system flush and replaced the radiator, cap, and thermometer (I double checked to make sure it was the correct temp thermo). During the install, apparently a bolt holding the thermostat housing broke off which is making me wonder if any damage was done to the cooling system. I trust this shop a lot and I am 99.99% certain they would tell me if they really screwed something up, so I don't think it has much to do with that.

Finally, my heat hasn't been very hot lately. I believe that this is due to a clogged heater core though because one of the hoses was hot to the touch and the other was only slightly warm.

Thanks for reading and let me know what I need to check, what pictures anyone may need to see, or suggestions on how to progress.

 

[JP98]

Take pics if you can. Does the substance fill slick like oil. You should be able to smell it and tell if it is oil vs coolant. Could be some oil escaping from around the PCV valve and it's just a fine mist.

 

[PStov98TJ]

That actually does seem to be where most of the mystery residue is located. I did take a paper towel and wipe some of it up and try to see if I could determine it by smell, while I think it smelled like coolant, I don't really trust that it is. It was faint at best and I'm a little worried that it is a problem with the cooling system so I could easily be biased in that.

I'll go grab a picture of the PCV valve in a minute. Anything else specific that might help?

 

[JP98]

A pic of where it is primarily located will help narrow it down.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

During the install, apparently a bolt holding the thermostat housing broke off which is making me wonder if any damage was done to the cooling system. I trust this shop a lot and I am 99.99% certain they would tell me if they really screwed something up, so I don't think it has much to do with that.

That bolt they snapped off threads into the head which would concern me greatly. I would confirm if they were able to extract the snapped off bolt from the head or not and if not, how they managed to get the thermostat housing to seal reliably.

 

[Chris]

In the interest of full disclosure, a few months ago I did have to replace my radiator. The cap blew off one night while I was driving.

The grime on your engine is likely from coolant left behind from when your radiator cap blew.

Not to say there isn't a leak, but the grime on the engine is left over coolant residue, which attracts grime, and then gets all nasty.

So wait... That bolt that was broken, was it extracted and replaced with a new one?

I agree that photos might help.

 

[Chris]

That bolt they snapped off threads into the head which would concern me greatly. I would confirm if they were able to extract the snapped off bolt from the head or not and if not, how they managed to get the thermostat housing to seal reliably.

X2. Just what I was thinking.

 

[PStov98TJ]

That bolt they snapped off threads into the head which would concern me greatly. I would confirm if they were able to extract the snapped off bolt from the head or not and if not, how they managed to get the thermostat housing to seal reliably.

I knew I'd forget something important... They were able to extract it and they said no damage was done that they could see. I figured that if they fessed up to breaking the bolt, extracting it, and replacing it, that I could trust that they didn't damage anything. And like I said, this shop is around the corner from my parents house in a small town. Doing shady business or bad work wouldn't have kept them in business this long.

However, I do have a new finding. I couldn't sit still so I went and took another look at it. On the drivers side I saw some hoses that were definitely still wet.

(Hoses came out of this thing....again, excuse the blatant ignorance)

Then, I looked at the driver's side accessory tray and noticed half of it was wet as well as the the steering shaft. Ran my finger on the steering and it definitely smelled like oil.

This makes me think possibly something to do with the brake system? About a year ago, I had to put it in the shop because the brake pedal wouldn't depress, but I haven't had a lick of trouble since. This summer, I adjusted the parking brake. It was way out of spec and wouldn't hold the jeep on any sort of incline. Could I have screwed something up by unknowingly over adjusting the brakes?

Here's some other pictures I took if these help at all:
Grimey engine that I need to clean

There's not much crap on the passenger side. The only thing I noticed was the air intake had a bit of moisture on it.

 

[PStov98TJ]

Man... wasn't aware of how clearly my phone would show my dirty engine:buenrollo:... anybody have recommendations of a good engine degreasing agent?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I always just use the local coin-op car wash's high pressure soapy sprayer, it does a good job on engine grease. Just keep the direct high pressure spray off the obvious fragile stuff and electrical connectors. They can get wet of course but there's a lot of force behind the spray. If the engine runs a little rough or you get a CEL afterwards, don't be concerned as those will clear up after the moisture that got into the wrong area has had a chance to evaporate.

 

[PStov98TJ]

I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

Any idea if my problem could be related the brake system leaking? I have good pressure at the pedal and haven't felt like the brakes were working at less than 100%. But I'm not sure if that completely rules out the braking system or not. Seems like it would, but I really don't want to mess around with possibly losing my brakes in traffic.

 

[JP98]

Ok. It looks like what ever is happening is behind the sensor in the top pic going back toward the firewall. The sensor doesn't look very covered but the lead wires coming out look well coated. How high is the fluid going. I can see it is being blown down and on to the frame below the master cylinder.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Check your brake reservoir to see if its level is up where it should be. I doubt its your brake system though, it wouldn't usually spray brake fluid over your engine.

Edit: That sensor you mentioned looks like the power steering pressure switch that bumps the engine RPMs up when you're steering... something only present with four-banger engines. I suppose it could be leaking PS fluid, how is the PS fluid level? If you need more PS fluid, your 98 takes PS fluid, not ATF+4 like 2003 and newer TJs require.

 

[Chris]

I always just use the local coin-op car wash's high pressure soapy sprayer, it does a good job on engine grease. Just keep the direct high pressure spray off the obvious fragile stuff and electrical connectors. They can get wet of course but there's a lot of force behind the spray. If the engine runs a little rough or you get a CEL afterwards, don't be concerned as those will clear up after the moisture that got into the wrong area has had a chance to evaporate.

X2. I thought I was one of the only ones that did this, but clearly not. It works like a charm!

 

[PStov98TJ]

Ok. It looks like what ever is happening is behind the sensor in the top pic going back toward the firewall. The sensor doesn't look very covered but the lead wires coming out look well coated. How high is the fluid going. I can see it is being blown down and on to the frame below the master cylinder.

None of it is higher than the bottom of the air intake as it passes over the engine.

Check your brake reservoir to see if its level is up where it should be. I doubt its your brake system though, it wouldn't usually spray brake fluid over your engine.

Edit: That sensor you mentioned looks like the power steering pressure switch that bumps the engine RPMs up when you're steering... something only present with four-banger engines. I suppose it could be leaking PS fluid, how is the PS fluid level? If you need more PS fluid, your system takes ATF+4, not PS fluid.

Brake fluid is good.
Power steering fluid was above the Cold line but below the Hot. It's about 62* where I'm at today and the jeep has been sitting for about 3 hours now. So could it be that it's just over filled?
Edit: And just for clarification, I have a 1998. I thought I had read that older TJ's use PS fluid and newer ones use ATF+4? Or do all 2.5L use the ATF+4?

 

[Chris]

BTW, I am going to suggest what Jerry suggested already. Top your power steering and brake fluid levels off. Monitor them closely over the next few days and see if either of them goes down. That will tell you which one (if any) is the problem.

Because right now I'm having a hard time telling if this is brake fluid or power steering fluid.

 

[PStov98TJ]

BTW, I am going to suggest what Jerry suggested already. Top your power steering and brake fluid levels off. Monitor them closely over the next few days and see if either of them goes down. That will tell you which one (if any) is the problem.

Because right now I'm having a hard time telling if this is brake fluid or power steering fluid.

Brake fluid is perfect. PS fluid might be high. It was half way between the HOT and COLD markings. And the jeep has been sitting outside in 62* or less for about 3 hours now.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Edit: And just for clarification, I have a 1998. I thought I had read that older TJ's use PS fluid and newer ones use ATF+4? Or do all 2.5L use the ATF+4?

Oh sorry I mistakenly thought you had a newer TJ, power steering fluid is indeed correct for your '98. I corrected my above post.

 

[PStov98TJ]

Oh sorry I mistakenly thought you had a newer TJ, power steering fluid is indeed correct for your '98.

No harm no foul. I admittedly saw a post from you from a couple years ago where I learned that piece of information.

 

[Chris]

I suppose you could always use the UV dye method, then you'd know for certain what was leaking and where it was leaking from.

I use that method when I have a leak, and it works every time.