Long Arm Lifts vs. Short Arm Lifts
- Thread starter Stox5225
- Start date
There is a piece of this that needs to be looked at more. But first...
If the angle of the arms seen on our lifted Jeeps is not enough to significantly effect the ride quality, then are there any other reasons to mess with the arm length?
Good question, one to which I don't have the answer. Savvy seems to have had a lot of success with their mid-arm kit, which seems to be a happy compromise between a short arm and a long arm. I haven't heard anything bad about it from anyone who runs it, including you and @John Beard.
They obviously have a reason for doing the mid-arm lift, which makes me curious as to what there is to be gained from a longer arm, aside from the "ride quality" that isn't an issue at 4" of lift.
Occasionally, I'll bring up terms like instant center and antisquat. It would be interesting to know what these are and what they mean on a stock TJ and then on a lifted TJ on short arms.
A interesting question that often asked by the doubters is how much angle is too much angle?
it's mostly academic, but I can't be the only one who knows just enough to be irritating.Why do I have a feeling that you already know the answer, you're just holding back...
I can't be the only one.
Why keep your knowledge to yourself then? Having knowledgable information made available to the public is a great learning tool. I can think of others (whom I won't name) that I wish would maybe take the time to write an informative article once a month (that we could all benefit from), but that'll never happen unfortunately!
That's a major point I've pushed countless times for longer than many here have been Jeep owners.
I've known all along your questions in this thread have been purely rhetorical.it's mostly academic, but I can't be the only one who knows just enough to be irritating.
I've known all along your questions in this thread have been purely rhetorical.it's mostly academic, but I can't be the only one who knows just enough to be irritating.
That's a major point I've pushed countless times for longer than many here have been Jeep owners.
In all reality though, I think that's why most new Wrangler owners are buying long arm lifts instead of short arm lifts. They're buying into the myth / bogus marketing that a long arm lift will provide a better quality ride.
I agree. For a very brief time when I was experimenting with a few ideas, I went from 2" to 3" to 4" of lift on the factory arms. The ride didn't change. If the shocks hadn't been too short for that ride height, I would have kept it that way a little longer.
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Pirate is partly famous for a 4 Link calculator spreadsheet that is the cause of many annoying suspension geometry threads. The actual numbers don't matter here, just some of the concepts.
The Instant Center is an imaginary point in space created by the extended intersection of control arm links.
This video shows where to find it. For our purposes, when the video talks about positioning it in the middle of the travel, substitute that for the normal ride height of your Jeep. We will move it around later.
This imaginary point is space is very important in this discussion of arms.
The Instant Center is an imaginary point in space created by the extended intersection of control arm links.
This video shows where to find it. For our purposes, when the video talks about positioning it in the middle of the travel, substitute that for the normal ride height of your Jeep. We will move it around later.
This imaginary point is space is very important in this discussion of arms.
I found it minutes ago. There looks to be a lot of good animations on the channel with really good simple explanations.
Cudabnu
TJ Enthusiast
For me personally, After I bought my 01 sahara I joined this site and started researching on which lift etc. After watching videos and seeing what the main body suggested I went with the OME ultimate lift. Eventually I'll do the same and replace the control arms (leaning towards Metalcloak), then on to 4.88 gears and lockers. But have to let the bank account recover from the first wave of mods!
So reading all of this really helps a newbie Jeep owner like myself. I love hearing about the pro's an cons of all the parts. The best so far are Winch related! Keep up the good work guys!
So reading all of this really helps a newbie Jeep owner like myself. I love hearing about the pro's an cons of all the parts. The best so far are Winch related! Keep up the good work guys!
At what point did you realize you needed (or was it wanted?) the mid-arm setup? Did you have an actual need for it, or was it something you did just because you had the funds? I'm genuinely curious.
Likely the same reason I've wanted one since Blaine's first prototype was installed into one of his TJs which I was invited to drive... reading Blaine's description of it and talking with Blaine to learn more about it.
I'm trying to understand this better — just thinking this through. The stock upper and lower control arms are not the same lengths, and they're not parallel. So as the axle moves through its range of travel, the axle is also going to rotate. (You can just barely see the rotation in the video @jjvw posted.)
If you have a lift kit installed with stock control arms, the position of the axle is lower in relation to the frame — so also rotated. You would need to correct for the axle rotation to get back to the right pinion/caster angles. You might be able to make smaller corrections within the range of stock alignment adjustment. But for larger adjustments with larger lifts would you need to change the control arm lengths?
Or if that's just nonsense, maybe you guys can correct me.
If you have a lift kit installed with stock control arms, the position of the axle is lower in relation to the frame — so also rotated. You would need to correct for the axle rotation to get back to the right pinion/caster angles. You might be able to make smaller corrections within the range of stock alignment adjustment. But for larger adjustments with larger lifts would you need to change the control arm lengths?
Or if that's just nonsense, maybe you guys can correct me.