Loose steering

Cheetokps

Cheetokps

TJ Enthusiast
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Jul 23, 2020
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Wallingford, CT
Hey guys, I have been tracking down loose steering on my Jeep. I have a large dead zone and it is very loose, it feels very unsafe on the highway.

I have found that where my steering shaft goes into my steering box, there is a lot of play and no movement in the pitman arm. I slightly tightened the gearbox adjustment nut but I don’t want to mess with it too much.


I’m assuming this is not normal play. Should I replace my steering shaft, or gearbox, or both/neither? Also what would the best replacement parts be?
 
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I had (still have) the same problem. I hauled off & replaced the steering box but it didn't help much. Turns out my issue is in the intermediate shaft, I have one on the shelf here that I'll be installing soon.

Edit: I can't see your video. I can hear it but can't see it. Dunno if it's just on my end.
 
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My steering also feels like shit because the PO installed a 4" lift & didn't install the right arms, so I'm guessing my caster is off. I still need to install my adjustable CAs on the front, hopefully it'll get better after that. Dunno if that applies to you though.
 
qslim said:
I had (still have) the same problem. I hauled off & replaced the steering box but it didn't help much. Turns out my issue is in the intermediate shaft, I have one on the shelf here that I'll be installing soon.

Edit: I can't see your video. I can hear it but can't see it. Dunno if it's just on my end.
Click to expand...
I think the video should be good now. Let me know if it improves when you get around to installing it, if it does I'll probably replace mine too. I brought my 31's from around 28-29 psi to around 30-31 and it made it less noticeable, although that might just be placebo.

I am currently at 1" lift so I don't think caster would be an issue. The bushings for my stock arms and some other parts are pretty worn/cracked so not sure if that would affect it at all. If it gets even worse when I install my zone 3" springs I'll probably get the savvy double adjustable arms and mess with my caster, but I was hoping to get away with stock arms for the time being because it seems cheaper to buy all 8 arms at once than buying in stages.
 
Kid Mechanic said:
Careful adjusting the box, it can cause improper loading on the worm gear causing failure.

Check out this thread, maybe some info, I didn’t read it.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/steering-dead-spot-and-wandering.7902/
Click to expand...
Yeah I was worried about doing it too much, I saw that somewhere else too. I adjusted it a few times but I think I tightened it about a half turn total, not sure how much is too much but hopefully that isn't enough to cause problems
 
I see your video now. Mine isn't doing that, I can still get about 15 degrees either way on the wheel but the input shaft to the box doesn't move.
 
qslim said:
I see your video now. Mine isn't doing that, I can still get about 15 degrees either way on the wheel but the input shaft to the box doesn't move.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks, when I noticed that it definitely did not look right. So maybe it is a gear box issue then? Or maybe something as simple as it not being tightened enough

I have not measured the angle of play in my steering wheel, but it definitely feels like a lot. What's the best way to measure that angle, a protractor and two sticks?
 
Cheetokps said:
Okay thanks, when I noticed that it definitely did not look right. So maybe it is a gear box issue then? Or maybe something as simple as it not being tightened enough

I have not measured the angle of play in my steering wheel, but it definitely feels like a lot. What's the best way to measure that angle, a protractor and two sticks?
Click to expand...
I put my iPhone in the middle of the steering wheel & pulled up the Measure app.
 
qslim said:
I put my iPhone in the middle of the steering wheel & pulled up the Measure app.
Click to expand...
It looks like I'm getting maybe 8-10 degrees on each side moving it slowly before there is any movement in the wheels, hard to see exactly how much so not sure if that's right. It definitely doesn't seem right that mine moves that much if your input shaft doesn't move at all
 
So I'm thinking about replacing my gear box, and I found these two options that seem like they would be good: Option A and Option B

Option A comes with a pitman arm already attached, so I would not have to deal with getting my pitman arm off the box. But, I would have to remove the arm from the drag link, which also looks like it might be a pain.

Which one would be the easiest to do, removing pitman arm from the gear box or from the drag link? Both ways look to be a little difficult, but I am not sure which would be worse. Also these gear boxes are used, would it be a better idea to get a new reman box?
 
Rubicon88 said:
How many inches free play at your wheel (steering)
Click to expand...
Where would I measure for inches, the horizontal movement at top of the wheel? I did what @qslim said and placed my phone on the wheel and seemed to be getting around 8-10 degrees both ways with the iPhone measure app before any wheel movement.

This is how it looks when I shake the wheel back and forth without the wheels moving:


And as you can see in the video I put on the first post on this thread its all on the shaft input into the gearbox, not after the pitman arm (although there could be some there as well, not sure)
 
Kid Mechanic said:
There is something about when dealing with these boxes you upgrade to a Cherokee box.
Click to expand...
I think from what I saw 03 and after can be replaced with cherokee box and 02 and before can be replaced with a durango box? But after reading about doing that it seemed unnecessary until you had 34"+ tires, although it might not hurt to do
 
Slow t
Cheetokps said:
Where would I measure for inches, the horizontal movement at top of the wheel? I did what @qslim said and placed my phone on the wheel and seemed to be getting around 8-10 degrees both ways with the iPhone measure app before any wheel movement.

This is how it looks when I shake the wheel back and forth without the wheels moving:
View attachment 239045

And as you can see in the video I put on the first post on this thread its all on the shaft input into the gearbox, not after the pitman arm (although there could be some there as well, not sure)
Click to expand...
Slow the fuck down...
 
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Cheetokps said:
Sorry, I thought that doing it fast would be better to show how much play there is. I'll try to get a better video

Edit: Is this better?
View attachment 239063
Click to expand...
That's not that bad.
Passable inspection wise.

Look....it doesn't matter how much play you have with what you're complaining of. (Sawing at the wheel). A component(s) is causing you to saw at the wheel. If your steering components are good you can let go of the wheel and it will track down the road properly. (Obviously if properly aligned)


Do a dry steering test with helper.
You have something else going on there.
It only takes one bad joint in the whole daisy chain to fuck it up.

Do NOT over look the pitman arm at the box as well. It is a softer material than the splined output shaft of the box it's fitted to.

Dry steering test.
KOEO (key on engine off)
Helper steering back and forth a few inches.
THIS IS NOT A RACE!!!!

There should be zero slack in each joint.

Not like a well there is a little bit of play but pretty good.
Z E R O play in all the joints.

Pitman at box, #1
TRE at pitman #2
Drag link (TRE @ passenger knuckle) #3
TRE in the middle of drag link #4
TRE at driver knuckle (#5)

Track bar at axle (#6)
Track bar at frame (#7)

Any slop in any one of these will make you saw at wheel.
You might have more than one bad joint but won't know until you fix one....then retest.
 
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Rubicon88 said:
That's not that bad.
Passable inspection wise.

Look....it doesn't matter how much play you have with what you're complaining of. (Sawing at the wheel). A component(s) is causing you to saw at the wheel. If your steering components are good you can let go of the wheel and it will track down the road properly. (Obviously if properly aligned)


Do a dry steering test with helper.
You have something else going on there.
It only takes one bad joint in the whole daisy chain to fuck it up.

Do NOT over look the pitman arm at the box as well. It is a softer material than the splined output shaft of the box it's fitted to.

Dry steering test.
KOEO (key on engine off)
Helper steering back and forth a few inches.
THIS IS NOT A RACE!!!!

There should be zero slack in each joint.

Not like a well there is a little bit of play but pretty good.
Z E R O play in all the joints.

Pitman at box, #1
TRE at pitman #2
Drag link (TRE @ passenger knuckle) #3
TRE in the middle of drag link #4
TRE at driver knuckle (#5)

Track bar at axle (#6)
Track bar at frame (#7)

Any slop in any one of these will make you saw at wheel.
You might have more than one bad joint but won't know until you fix one....then retest.
Click to expand...
Wow thanks, I'll have to go through and do that. I did a dry steering test already, but I had my helper jerk the wheel fast so I'll have to do it again and make sure to check everything. My axle side track bar mount had a slight amount of play, but that was the only thing I noticed was bad the first time. TRE's and drag link seemed good, but I'll check everything again.

I also know my u-joints are bad (passenger side especially) which I plan on replacing with spicer 5-760x's soon (have them already) and possibly ball joints but I am not sure if mine are okay so might not bother yet.

I have a jks ogs126 track bar sitting in my garage for when I install my lift (waiting on wheels/tires for now), but since I am currently sitting at 1" I was not sure if I would have clearance problems with my dana 30 installing it before everything else. If I wouldn't, I might try to install it and see if it helps. It says its good down to 1" lift, but I have heard lots of people saying they have problems with adjustable track bars under 2" of lift
 
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