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Moving lower control arm mount point and anti-squat question

Roadhawg011

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May 26, 2020
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South Africa
I was watching a video the other night on TJ ride comfort improvements and one of the things mentioned was re-drilling the LCA mounting point lower in the bracket to flatten out the LCA angle

Now I realise this would change the anti-squat....from my understanding this would LOWER the anti-squat value, everything else staying the same.
I'm on a short arm RE 3.5inch lift with very little added weight, stock rear bumper, soft top, nothing added in the back, so I believe you get more like 4" of lift with those springs. Short arm 4inch would raise the anti-squat quite a bit from stock. Wouldn't re-drilling the mounts and lowering Anti-Squat be a good idea in this case?

For a while now I've felt like the jeep bounces/lurches if I'm on the gas and go over a small bump in the road. I was chasing play in the driveline for this (and coming up empty), but I'm thinking now it might be excessive anti-squat doing this?
 

freedom_in_4low

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I think you have the theory right, but getting enough antisquat reduction out of moving one end of one pair of links to produce a perceptible change in behavior may be a tall order.

The go to for improving anti squat in this group is the midarm by savvy off-road... It relocates most of not all of the link mounts and I haven't used but I do believe produces the desired results.

There is a company out there selling the idea that things can be improved by both redrilling the frame LCA and simultaneously raising the axle UCA with a new pair of mount brackets. It's been discussed at length here with the conclusion that it isn't as effective as a savvy midarm, but discussion become less clear and more emotionally driven when it comes to whether it makes a difference at all, or one worth the effort of replacing your axle UCA and track bar brackets.
 

Lightning

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I was watching a video the other night on TJ ride comfort improvements and one of the things mentioned was re-drilling the LCA mounting point lower in the bracket to flatten out the LCA angle

Now I realise this would change the anti-squat....from my understanding this would LOWER the anti-squat value, everything else staying the same.
I'm on a short arm RE 3.5inch lift with very little added weight, stock rear bumper, soft top, nothing added in the back, so I believe you get more like 4" of lift with those springs. Short arm 4inch would raise the anti-squat quite a bit from stock. Wouldn't re-drilling the mounts and lowering Anti-Squat be a good idea in this case?

For a while now I've felt like the jeep bounces/lurches if I'm on the gas and go over a small bump in the road. I was chasing play in the driveline for this (and coming up empty), but I'm thinking now it might be excessive anti-squat doing this?

Thanks for the link, good video that in the right forum would promote an educated discussion that could benefit all TJ owners. 👍
 

mrblaine

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Nov 20, 2015
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24,711
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Quail Valley, CA
I think you have the theory right, but getting enough antisquat reduction out of moving one end of one pair of links to produce a perceptible change in behavior may be a tall order.

The go to for improving anti squat in this group is the midarm by savvy off-road... It relocates most of not all of the link mounts and I haven't used but I do believe produces the desired results.

There is a company out there selling the idea that things can be improved by both redrilling the frame LCA and simultaneously raising the axle UCA with a new pair of mount brackets. It's been discussed at length here with the conclusion that it isn't as effective as a savvy midarm, but discussion become less clear and more emotionally driven when it comes to whether it makes a difference at all, or one worth the effort of replacing your axle UCA and track bar brackets.

I'm highly confused about a lot of the claims made to improve ride quality.
If "your" position is that springs do it, why is it that I can make simple changes to the rig, never touch the springs and make it ride like ass?
If long arms improve ride quality, then why is it that I can make any long arm rig ride like ass and never change the length of the arms?
If joints fix it, then how come I can make a rig with any joint in the arm ride like ass and never change or touch the joints?
If short arms, 35's, 4" springs and TJ wheelbase are so hard to make have great ride quality, then how come we can do it and never change the tires, arm length, arm angle, wheelbase or springs?
If the Savvy Mid Arm fixes ride quality, then why is it possible for me to make a rig with one ride like ass?
 

NashvilleTJ

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I'm highly confused about a lot of the claims made to improve ride quality.
If "your" position is that springs do it, why is it that I can make simple changes to the rig, never touch the springs and make it ride like ass?
If long arms improve ride quality, then why is it that I can make any long arm rig ride like ass and never change the length of the arms?
If joints fix it, then how come I can make a rig with any joint in the arm ride like ass and never change or touch the joints?
If short arms, 35's, 4" springs and TJ wheelbase are so hard to make have great ride quality, then how come we can do it and never change the tires, arm length, arm angle, wheelbase or springs?
If the Savvy Mid Arm fixes ride quality, then why is it possible for me to make a rig with one ride like ass?

Blaine - sounds like you are really good at making a vehicle ride like ass…

😉
 

freedom_in_4low

I'm a rooster illusion
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I'm highly confused about a lot of the claims made to improve ride quality.
If "your" position is that springs do it, why is it that I can make simple changes to the rig, never touch the springs and make it ride like ass?
If long arms improve ride quality, then why is it that I can make any long arm rig ride like ass and never change the length of the arms?
If joints fix it, then how come I can make a rig with any joint in the arm ride like ass and never change or touch the joints?
If short arms, 35's, 4" springs and TJ wheelbase are so hard to make have great ride quality, then how come we can do it and never change the tires, arm length, arm angle, wheelbase or springs?
If the Savvy Mid Arm fixes ride quality, then why is it possible for me to make a rig with one ride like ass?

I wasn't addressing ride quality, I was strictly addressing the idea of making a material change in vehicle behavior through the change in anti squat that can be accomplished with a 1" change to one end of one pair of links.

Obviously the usual ride quality suspects should be addressed before getting into geometry.
 

mrblaine

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Quail Valley, CA
I was watching a video the other night on TJ ride comfort improvements and one of the things mentioned was re-drilling the LCA mounting point lower in the bracket to flatten out the LCA angle

I wasn't addressing ride quality, I was strictly addressing the idea of making a material change in vehicle behavior through the change in anti squat that can be accomplished with a 1" change to one end of one pair of links.

Obviously the usual ride quality suspects should be addressed before getting into geometry.

Just staying in context.
 

freedom_in_4low

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I was watching a video the other night on TJ ride comfort improvements and one of the things mentioned was re-drilling the LCA mounting point lower in the bracket to flatten out the LCA angle

Now I realise this would change the anti-squat....from my understanding this would LOWER the anti-squat value, everything else staying the same.
I'm on a short arm RE 3.5inch lift with very little added weight, stock rear bumper, soft top, nothing added in the back, so I believe you get more like 4" of lift with those springs. Short arm 4inch would raise the anti-squat quite a bit from stock. Wouldn't re-drilling the mounts and lowering Anti-Squat be a good idea in this case?

For a while now I've felt like the jeep bounces/lurches if I'm on the gas and go over a small bump in the road. I was chasing play in the driveline for this (and coming up empty), but I'm thinking now it might be excessive anti-squat doing this?

what shocks are you using and what is your tire size and inflation pressure?
 

pcoplin

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Santiam, OR
Yes, you can change your antisquat (for the better) by flattening the rear links. Lifted short arms on 4 inch climbs terrible IMO. Lots of antisquat (hopping, front tire lifting, ect). I build mine differently than others, but also like a lot lower antisquat than any Jeep suspension kit personally.
 

freedom_in_4low

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Yes, you can change your antisquat (for the better) by flattening the rear links. Lifted short arms on 4 inch climbs terrible IMO. Lots of antisquat (hopping, front tire lifting, ect). I build mine differently than others, but also like a lot lower antisquat than any Jeep suspension kit personally.

the triaged calculator does give me a 40% reduction in AS by lowering the frame end of the UCA by 1", but I'm not sure I believe the number I get out of it to start with (because it's closer to 100% than what I expect for a 4" lifted shortarm LJ), and I haven't seen the behavior that would call for reducing my AS.
 

pcoplin

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the triaged calculator does give me a 40% reduction in AS by lowering the frame end of the UCA by 1", but I'm not sure I believe the number I get out of it to start with (because it's closer to 100% than what I expect for a 4" lifted shortarm LJ), and I haven't seen the behavior that would call for reducing my AS.

I've never really put the numbers in for an LJ, but that 100% seems way better than the 130% I've calculated for a TJ. Of course, it all depends where you guess the COG to be. I like 50-70 percent.

If you don't have any quirks that annoy you, no need to change anything.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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I've never really put the numbers in for an LJ, but that 100% seems way better than the 130% I've calculated for a TJ. Of course, it all depends where you guess the COG to be. I like 50-70 percent.

If you don't have any quirks that annoy you, no need to change anything.

I got 99% taking a wild guess at about camshaft height for the CG....but that's 36". Maybe I guessed too high. That's good if I did, because that might give me more confidence in the off camber stuff.

Accelerating on pavement definitely feels like there's a lot of antisquat, but that doesn't bother me and I haven't had a chance to wheel the LJ as much as I did my TJ, and i've either had enough traction to get up without hopping, or not enough traction to make it hop. But since I haven't seen it, I'm not motivated to do anything about it.
 

taylormade73

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