Moving winch to side posts?

[macleanflood]

So I've struggled a bit with Alternator issues... original issue was probably a loose bolt in the milspec battery lug... replacement 135a alternator burned up the positive side of the rectifier bridge...this weekend we went out snow wheeling and ended up double sticking both vehicles in deep snow. Freezing temperatures. Took about three hours of winching, shoveling, recovery ropes...had the jack out shoving snow under tires.

At one point running the winch the voltage on the dash dropped to zero and check gauges flashed on. I'm trying to run my 97 TJ 4.0 AX15 around 2k RPM to get the alternator voltage up. I have a hated Optima yellow top...about 1.5 years old.

So one answer is the battery isn't doing what it should...

Had a thought of moving the winch from the milspec lugs (where everything else is attached) to the side lugs in an attempt to isolate things a bit. Although something tells me internally in the battery both the top and side lugs are probably bussed together.

Thoughts?

(YouTube thumbnail and editing the footage.)

-Mac

 

[Blackjack]

What battery? I know that some batteries side posts are not a robust as the top post. Older Optimas were so bad they would turn into volcanos.

 

[NskLJ]

So I've struggled a bit with Alternator issues... original issue was probably a loose bolt in the milspec battery lug... replacement 135a alternator burned up the positive side of the rectifier bridge...this weekend we went out snow wheeling and ended up double sticking both vehicles in deep snow. Freezing temperatures. Took about three hours of winching, shoveling, recovery ropes...had the jack out shoving snow under tires.

At one point running the winch the voltage on the dash dropped to zero and check gauges flashed on. I'm trying to run my 97 TJ 4.0 AX15 around 2k RPM to get the alternator voltage up. I have a hated Optima yellow top...about 1.5 years old.

So one answer is the battery isn't doing what it should...

Had a thought of moving the winch from the milspec lugs (where everything else is attached) to the side lugs in an attempt to isolate things a bit. Although something tells me internally in the battery both the top and side lugs are probably bussed together.

Thoughts?

(YouTube thumbnail and editing the footage.)
Sounds like you need dual batteries for all the fun you were having
View attachment 394841

View attachment 394843

-Mac

 

[Jerry Bransford]

As designed, Optima's aux posts aren't up to the demands of a winch under a heavy load. Before I stopped running Optima batteries I made a pair of 2 gauge jumper cables to connect the main posts to the aux ports. This shows them on my Blue Top Optima but I used them previously on my Yellow Tops to connect the top posts to the side posts. They carried/shared the load from the aux posts to the main posts on top.

They're not needed for better quality AGM batteries.

 

[macleanflood]

I don't have anything on the side posts at the moment. I don't think I'll untap any hidden potential in this Optima Yellow Top.

Going with the simple answer that this battery is a POS and will start watching for deals for an Odyssey or equivalent as recommended in other posts. Might even squeeze in a group 65.

Meanwhile I might bring my clamping ammeter out wheeling and get accurate amp numbers off this M8000 for kicks.

Thanks!
Mac

 

[Wildman]

Even with dual batteries and a 200 amp alternator when doing heavy winching I've ran my batteries down enough to make the check gauges light come on.

As to your side post question I'd always been told never to use them for winching that the side posts were only for engine starting.

 

[Gollywomper]

My winch has been connected to the side posts on my odyssey for as long as I have had it. No issues yet.

 

[Wildman]

My winch has been connected to the side posts on my odyssey for as long as I have had it. No issues yet.

Maybe it was just older batteries?

 

[Gollywomper]

I dunno, maybe I have been lucky. I had never heard of that before. However the side posts on the odessey are 3/8”. Hope I don’t jinx myself.

 

[Wildman]

I dunno, maybe I have been lucky. I had never heard of that before. However the side posts on the odessey are 3/8”. Hope I don’t jinx myself.

I'll have to do a little more research & see if I can find info on Odessey.

From a few of the forums.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/winch-cables-on-side-post-terminals.750135/

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/optima-battery-side-terminals-and-winch.1118099/
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/winch-question.51546/

 

[Rickyd]

Freezing temperatures. Took about three hours of winching

keep in mind your winch is a huge drain on both your battery and alternator. Heavy use can burn them both up if you aren't careful.especially if its hard pulls using a lot of amps. Lots of time and rpms for the alt to fully recharge the battery between pulls is a good idea

Amp clamp isn't a bad idea to understand how taxing it is on the alternator but it will put you in the danger zone if you pull and try to get a reading at the same time.

Your winch company should have literature on amps/line load. It is a lot.

If you want higher duty cycle winching then hydraulic or pto winches are the way.tow trucks don't use electric winches

 

[sab]

This is Warn's performance chart for the M8000:

Note that it will overload the output of your alternator's max output at less than one-quarter its capacity. If you're pulling at high loads, you'll pull your battery down pretty quickly. Also, the winch motor and solenoid can only be run at high loads for a few minutes before the heat build-up will kill them.

 

[Gollywomper]

I emailed Odyssey Battery. They said they would recommend using the top posts. However they also said there most likely would not be an issue on the side posts as that is where they take their CCA measurements.

 

[Wildman]

I emailed Odyssey Battery. They said they would recommend using the top posts. However they also said there most likely would not be an issue on the side posts as that is where they take their CCA measurements.

So they obviously construct their batteries different than other companies. It's good to know.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

This is Warn's performance chart for the M8000:

View attachment 394988

Note that it will overload the output of your alternator's max output at less than one-quarter its capacity. If you're pulling at high loads, you'll pull your battery down pretty quickly. Also, the winch motor and solenoid can only be run at high loads for a few minutes before the heat build-up will kill them.

Rarely are winches used for long periods of time at their upper capacities, high loads are normally over after a short pull to get someone up and over something or up out of a hole. I've yet to have a battery problem in over 20 years of winching, at times doing it repetitively for sections of trail that lots have trouble getting up & over. Common sense battery management works well for me... keep the engine rpms up and keep them up between pulls, pausing every so often to give the alternator more time to put more charge into the battery.