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New Motobilt 4-Link Suspension

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Bender

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You quote as well as you are able to talk tech and design. None of your cute drawings address what I have been asking about.
Nothing you’ve said come close to a real question, tech or design. You ask a completely open ended question then won’t answer when I ask about the design parameters. Like what are you doing with the rig. Driving on the street, racing KOH, tail hero or just out put’s around. What you fail to see is there is no “one size fits all”’ suspension for every person or terrain. Every question you ask leads to 10 other questions that I would need answered to give you an honest answer. If this process is too hard for you to grasp then I see we are going no where.
 

jjvw

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Nothing you’ve said come close to a real question, tech or design. You ask a completely open ended question then won’t answer when I ask about the design parameters. Like what are you doing with the rig. Driving on the street, racing KOH, tail hero or just out put’s around. What you fail to see is there is no “one size fits all”’ suspension for every person or terrain. Every question you ask leads to 10 other questions that I would need answered to give you an honest answer. If this process is too hard for you to grasp then I see we are going no where.

I guess you don't know what tire size you would recommend for these kits. Or what the resulting belly height would be. Or anything about what kind of suspension travels you like to aim for.

All of that seems so easy to provide along with any qualification you would feel is necessary. But you are unable to do anything like that.
 

Cross-Threaded-06TJ

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😂. I’ve raced KOH 13 no wait 14 times now…. I don’t know I lost count.

Start a build thread here then. Literally show us how it's done the motobilt way.


Show the WTJF boys how your systems work. You obviously know how to post pictures. We love pictures, and some even like tech to explain what you've done......


You already have the rad Komatsu fork lift. Do it.
 

Bender

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I guess you don't know what tire size you would recommend for these kits. Or what the resulting belly height would be. Or anything about what kind of suspension travels you like to aim for.

All of that seems so easy to provide along with any qualification you would feel is necessary. But you are unable to do anything like that.

You really have no concept of how to build a rig do you? This kit was designed to run 40-43” tors ideally.
Belly height is whatever you feel is best for how you wheel and what terrain you plan on running.
Up travel is another thing that is completely on the end user to set up for themselves for what kind of terrain they will be on.

This is a broken record. I’ll go back the the very beginning where I’ve asked you multiple times over and over for simple answers like kind of terrain are you planning on running? And THAT is the key to building or at very least the main design parameter on which the whole rig is built for.
 

jjvw

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You really have no concept of how to build a rig do you? This kit was designed to run 40-43” tors ideally.
Belly height is whatever you feel is best for how you wheel and what terrain you plan on running.
Up travel is another thing that is completely on the end user to set up for themselves for what kind of terrain they will be on.

This is a broken record. I’ll go back the the very beginning where I’ve asked you multiple times over and over for simple answers like kind of terrain are you planning on running? And THAT is the key to building or at very least the main design parameter on which the whole rig is built for.

Good. You could have written something to that effect six hours ago. But at least I finally got something of use out of you.
 

Bender

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Start a build thread here then. Literally show us how it's done the motobilt way.


Show the WTJF boys how your systems work. You obviously know how to post pictures. We love pictures, and some even like tech to explain what you've done......


You already have the rad Komatsu fork lift. Do it.
The forklift is a great tool to use when setting up the suspension. It’s much easier to use to check clearances before it’s on the trail.
 

jjvw

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The forklift is a great tool to use when setting up the suspension. It’s much easier to use to check clearances before it’s on the trail.

I'm done with this one. But only because I have no concept about how to build a rig. 🤣
 

Bender

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Good. You could have written something to that effect six hours ago. But at least I finally got something of use out of you.

Now you try……. Explain exactly where you think the hang up point on the “belly” is 🤔
 
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jjvw

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Now you try……. Explain exactly where you think the hang up point on the “belly” is 🤔

You're still confused about who is saying what. And then you pulled the forklift out as a great way to set up a suspension. I've wasted enough time on this.
 

Cross-Threaded-06TJ

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The forklift is a great tool to use when setting up the suspension. It’s much easier to use to check clearances before it’s on the trail.
images (1).jpeg
 

Blackjack

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Now you try……. Explain exactly where you think the hang up point on the “belly” is 🤔

Rob maybe you can throw some numbers out to help understand what your kit is for. For an average Yj/Tj build you do in the shop:

What tire size
What wheelbase
What antisquat percentage at ride height
What belly height
What length coilovers and how much up travel
Average total vehicle weight and how much is unsprung
 
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antighboatye

antighboatye

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Checking back in finally, and I guess I should have known better than to expect more out of a thread about suspension setups, but like every automotive forum, replies turn into contests of who can post the snappiest comeback, and eventually someone throws down the “1v1 me bro” gauntlet. I still can’t believe that actually happened.

@jjvw you set the tone for the whole thread with your snarky first post, so if you’re disappointed in the direction it went and are done with it, I wouldn’t complain.

This board is an unbelievable wealth of information, but wading through the constant shitting on new ideas and legitimate questions about why a certain approach gets the only gold seal of approval is really tiresome. It’s entirely possible to pose questions and explain thought processes or engineering principles without trying to dunk on everyone.

@Bender your willingness to engage is appreciated, but it would be helpful if you could give some straightforward answers to direct questions. If the setup in question allows for as many variables as you say it does, can you provide some examples of how it was set up in the YJ build (or any other build) and what considerations were made for the type of wheeling and how it impacted the build?

Maybe we could even talk to each other like we would if we were face to face and actually interested in a hobby we all have in common.
 

jjvw

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Checking back in finally, and I guess I should have known better than to expect more out of a thread about suspension setups, but like every automotive forum, replies turn into contests of who can post the snappiest comeback, and eventually someone throws down the “1v1 me bro” gauntlet. I still can’t believe that actually happened.

@jjvw you set the tone for the whole thread with your snarky first post, so if you’re disappointed in the direction it went and are done with it, I wouldn’t complain.

This board is an unbelievable wealth of information, but wading through the constant shitting on new ideas and legitimate questions about why a certain approach gets the only gold seal of approval is really tiresome. It’s entirely possible to pose questions and explain thought processes or engineering principles without trying to dunk on everyone.

@Bender your willingness to engage is appreciated, but it would be helpful if you could give some straightforward answers to direct questions. If the setup in question allows for as many variables as you say it does, can you provide some examples of how it was set up in the YJ build (or any other build) and what considerations were made for the type of wheeling and how it impacted the build?

Maybe we could even talk to each other like we would if we were face to face and actually interested in a hobby we all have in common.

Nothing about my initial thoughts have really changed. If anything, the Motobilt marketing team confirmed most of my suspicions. Which honestly was a bit unexpected.
 

Bender

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2022
Messages
58
Location
Dothan
Checking back in finally, and I guess I should have known better than to expect more out of a thread about suspension setups, but like every automotive forum, replies turn into contests of who can post the snappiest comeback, and eventually someone throws down the “1v1 me bro” gauntlet. I still can’t believe that actually happened.

@jjvw you set the tone for the whole thread with your snarky first post, so if you’re disappointed in the direction it went and are done with it, I wouldn’t complain.

This board is an unbelievable wealth of information, but wading through the constant shitting on new ideas and legitimate questions about why a certain approach gets the only gold seal of approval is really tiresome. It’s entirely possible to pose questions and explain thought processes or engineering principles without trying to dunk on everyone.

@Bender your willingness to engage is appreciated, but it would be helpful if you could give some straightforward answers to direct questions. If the setup in question allows for as many variables as you say it does, can you provide some examples of how it was set up in the YJ build (or any other build) and what considerations were made for the type of wheeling and how it impacted the build?

Maybe we could even talk to each other like we would if we were face to face and actually interested in a hobby we all have in common.

The yj build is more of full bodied low slung bouncer for lack of a better description. As with any full bodied build, the frame and axle clearance is one of the biggest factors. Getting the frame rails as high as possible over the axles allows the whole body engine/trannyt/case to sit lower given the same up travel . We used our front and rear frame kit to not only achieve more clearance over the axle but it also is narrower than the stock frame to allow for more shock clearance throughout the suspension cycle. A double triangulated suspension was used because it travels more linear with less suspension over steer. It also allows for much more tire to link clearance when turning.
Because it is going to be beat on pretty aggressively all suspension joints are 1 1/4. They mount to 4” tubed 14 bolt axles front and rear. The weight of these axle is considerably heavier than say a 10” fabricated housing. With this build unsprung weight isnt as big of an issue as would be say in an ultra4 car where you would want a different spring unsprung bias.
We stretched the wheelbase to help with approach and departure angles and climbs.
A lower “sub frame” I’d you will not only allows you to get more vertical separation at the chassis, it allows you to do it without having to cut the tub or run a body lift. Having the “subframe” gives you a couple more valuable inches of clearance to run exhaust and drivetrain components.
We are running full hydraulic steering because of its strength and because steering input isn’t transferred through the mechanical linkage to the chassis.
The floor under the seats was cut out the lower the seats in the tub which allowed us to make a 3” lower cage while retaining the same head clearance. I only mentioned this because it ties back to the lower CG of the build.
This rig will most likely end with 6-7” of up travel as it’s the best balance of crawl/trail use. If it we’re getting beat on it would be more around around 8” and in crawling it would be set around 4” to lower the center of gravity.
This rig is running a 742 hp 454, t400/ atlas combo. Big hp for hills, big burnouts and who doesn’t like hp!
The kit has a skid plate as well as a removable tubular substructure for strength. This isn’t a little bracket you weld to the side of your frame, it’s a complete heavy duty structure that ties both frame rails together and is welded in.
The front crossmember of the kit is removable as well as the skid and tubular bracing to ease of maintenance. We’ve also included brackets that bolt in place when the front crossmember/lower link mount is removed so you can temporarily bolt the chassis side lower to so the vehicle can be moved (which really helps with small shop spaces)
Let’s see.. the front section of the skid comes with a removable front section so that an engine skid plate can be installed and still has secure mounting location as well as a smooth engine skid/belly skid transition.
It has a 20 gallon cell that is mounted behind the axle which gives you the ability to run a rear seat and ice chest/gear. Because when it comes down to it, it’s not a comp rig and will see mostly extreme trail use.

With all this said, the only reason I’m here is because someone made the comment that I didn’t know what I’m doing. I came on to ask how he came to this conclusion, not to sell this kit.
MOST IMPORTANTLY!
I will not and have not disparaged Savvy, Blaine or his experience or expertise. He clearly knows his shit and has proven it time and time again. I’m not sure if most of you realize just how small this industry is and how most players know each other.
 

rasband

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With all this said, the only reason I’m here is because someone made the comment that I didn’t know what I’m doing.
Where was this said? I do see criticisms of the design from a few of us (myself included, pg1 and 2), but nothing saying you "don't know what you're doing".

For what it's worth you didn't really refute any of those criticisms and instead reject all thoughts/criticisms/ideas/questions based on what you perceive of our experience/profession/etc.
 
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