New rockers still have some wiggle at FSM torque

[KeepinitKeeled]

Hey all,

Long time lurker to the forum, so first want to thank you all for the incredible wealth of knowledge contributed here — I've been able to learn so much from all of you and have tackled tons of projects I would have never thought were in my wheel-house five + years ago.

So the gist of my current dilemma: I have a 2002 4.0 I6 with just under 150K on it. A couple weeks ago I pulled the valve cover to replace the leaking gasket and install a set of brand new engine tech rocker arms, bridges, and pivots, along with new mopar push rods with the intent of eliminating some top end noise. All went well, and parts all looked great on arrival, however as soon as I fired it up I noticed a new sound. Initially I thought maybe I was now just able to hear something else since the other noise was gone, but decided I should investigate the valve train again incase I misaligned anything. When I pulled the valve cover today, I notice that some of the rocker arms have a slight wiggle left to to right the produces a subtle clicking as the arm contacts the side of the pivot. I thought that was weird, so I checked all the capscrews for proper torque and indeed they're all torqued to 21 ft/lbs per FSM. I'm thinking this must be the source of the sound, as the frequency it would occur at with the engine running seems to line up, additionally the rockers have no vertical give, which leads me to believe there are no bad lifters contributing to the noise.

Does anyone have experience with bad parts from engine tech? The Mopar push rods were in excellent condition and checked true prior to installation so I don't think they are the problem. Or does anyone know if it makes any difference that I did not originally torque each bridge at its piston's TDC? My understanding from the FSM was that was not necessary, just torque once and go... All the rockers look to be lined up perfectly with their valve springs with the correct bridge screw torque specs. I'll see if I can get a couple quick videos uploaded to show my suspicion for the source of the noise and the associated rocker movement along with another video of the sound with everything put back together.

Thanks in advance

 

[KeepinitKeeled]

Here's a link to a video of the noise and "wiggle":

https://vimeo.com/1024561986?share=copy

 

[Woodrow]

Here's a link to a video of the noise and "wiggle":

https://vimeo.com/1024561986?share=copy

First off: Welcome. Next: I, like you, have really advanced my garage skills largely as a result of this forum. So, its cool to see you doing it too!
I haven’t encountered your issue and haven’t rebuilt a top end. But, I think the side-to-side play your video shows may not be abnormal. However, I will defer to other members with engine building experience on that. Can you describe the new noise more, post a video with the engine running (even with the cover off, although that may be messy)?

 

[macleanflood]

Following. Might do the same thing to my 4.0.

-Mac

 

[KeepinitKeeled]

I’ll see if I can get a video of the noise here with the cover off. Unfortunately have to get it buttoned back up today, as it’s my daily as well and I have work this evening. I’ve been watching some of Dex’s 4.0 stuff on his youtube channel and I’m really hoping the issue isn't below the head...all those videos of cracked/shattered piston skirts got me nervous.

 

[Rickyd]

Hey all,

Long time lurker to the forum, so first want to thank you all for the incredible wealth of knowledge contributed here — I've been able to learn so much from all of you and have tackled tons of projects I would have never thought were in my wheel-house five + years ago.

So the gist of my current dilemma: I have a 2002 4.0 I6 with just under 150K on it. A couple weeks ago I pulled the valve cover to replace the leaking gasket and install a set of brand new engine tech rocker arms, bridges, and pivots, along with new mopar push rods with the intent of eliminating some top end noise. All went well, and parts all looked great on arrival, however as soon as I fired it up I noticed a new sound. Initially I thought maybe I was now just able to hear something else since the other noise was gone, but decided I should investigate the valve train again incase I misaligned anything. When I pulled the valve cover today, I notice that some of the rocker arms have a slight wiggle left to to right the produces a subtle clicking as the arm contacts the side of the pivot. I thought that was weird, so I checked all the capscrews for proper torque and indeed they're all torqued to 21 ft/lbs per FSM. I'm thinking this must be the source of the sound, as the frequency it would occur at with the engine running seems to line up, additionally the rockers have no vertical give, which leads me to believe there are no bad lifters contributing to the noise.

Does anyone have experience with bad parts from engine tech? The Mopar push rods were in excellent condition and checked true prior to installation so I don't think they are the problem. Or does anyone know if it makes any difference that I did not originally torque each bridge at its piston's TDC? My understanding from the FSM was that was not necessary, just torque once and go... All the rockers look to be lined up perfectly with their valve springs with the correct bridge screw torque specs. I'll see if I can get a couple quick videos uploaded to show my suspicion for the source of the noise and the associated rocker movement along with another video of the sound with everything put back together.

Thanks in advance

More than likely your old rockers were better quality.the cheap rockers I have seen were made of thinner material and not as consistent in their dimensions as stock.
Did you measure your lifter preload when you installed the Chinese junk? This is an easy way to see if you are in the ballpark.

It isn't unheard of for there to be different lengths pushrods to set the preload on these types of engines. I hope you saved all the old stuff and know the positions it was in. I would be putting it all back.

 

[KeepinitKeeled]

More than likely your old rockers were better quality.the cheap rockers I have seen were made of thinner material and not as consistent in their dimensions as stock.
Did you measure your lifter preload when you installed the Chinese junk? This is an easy way to see if you are in the ballpark.

It isn't unheard of for there to be different lengths pushrods to set the preload on these types of engines. I hope you saved all the old stuff and know the positions it was in. I would be putting it all back.

I did keep all the old parts and have them organized by their respective places, but I'd rather not put them back unless I absolutely have to as they were rattling pretty good prior to removal, they definitely have some wear. I agree though on the whole, it's sad we are so much more limited in what's available for American made parts these days. Might have to get better at scrap-yarding!

 

[KeepinitKeeled]

Well, I find myself chasing my tail here...Ran it without the cover this morning and of course, the noise is gone Everything looked and sounded great, other than surprisingly gnar-looking oil even though i just changed it after all the new parts were put in...probably time to drop the pan and clean out all the scuz/see if there's any evidence of worse happenings collecting down there. Need to change out the gasket and RMS anyway

I'll upload the videos of the valve train if I have some time tonight just for the sake of building a history of chasing this down and for others to learn/see whatever they can get from it. Who knows, maybe when I was checking torque on the capscrews last night I tightened up a loose rocker *shrug* too many garage suds may be confounding the evidence here.

If I end up hearing the noise again I'll be sure to get a video uploaded for some more group think.

 

[Moglocker]

Well, I find myself chasing my tail here...Ran it without the cover this morning and of course, the noise is gone Everything looked and sounded great, other than surprisingly gnar-looking oil even though i just changed it after all the new parts were put in...probably time to drop the pan and clean out all the scuz/see if there's any evidence of worse happenings collecting down there. Need to change out the gasket and RMS anyway

I'll upload the videos of the valve train if I have some time tonight just for the sake of building a history of chasing this down and for others to learn/see whatever they can get from it. Who knows, maybe when I was checking torque on the capscrews last night I tightened up a loose rocker *shrug* too many garage suds may be confounding the evidence here.

If I end up hearing the noise again I'll be sure to get a video uploaded for some more group think.

Did you run it after the video you submitted?,the lifters do take a few minutes to pump up.