New to TJ's, would love some help

7slotMT

7slotMT

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Missoula, MT
Hello all,

New to the forum, new to TJ's, made the switch from a long-term relationship with XJ's and finally decided it was time.

88759


I found this jeep and immediately called on it and ended up bringing it home.

So a few things that I have to deal with are:

Tcase drop and no SYE
Dana 30 LP and Dana 35
Real weird and kinda scary shimmy/torque steer on the highway (noticeable around town too)
Upgrading from a crappy 3 inch lift to mostly Currie parts (4 inch lift)

So first thing I've done was order Currie control arms all around. They are in the mail and I'm hoping the torque steer/shimmy will be alleviated with good arms.

I plan on most likely running a JB SS SYE and I have a few XJ front shafts laying around so I'll cut one of them down for the rear shaft.

I have a Dana 44 from a 75 ford as well as a matching 9" that I plan to build up and I have already tactically acquired a new ARB locker for the 44 (for $600 to boot).

My big question is what else should I be looking at for this shimmy situation aside from my new arms (yes I have searched, and arms and track bar seem to be the popular consensus. But looking for people's personal experiences)
I would also like to know what the easier way to set up steering on the Dana 44 might be (keeping it full-width at 65") @mrblaine could you maybe give me the 411 on this part?

Thanks for your time
 
Cool, he’s the right guy...and you know a lot going in as well. This will turn out good , stay with us . You will get some good information...I had a similar issue....now I can run 70mph and steer with one finger with beadlock wheels and 33’s.
 
7slotMT said:
I would also like to know what the easier way to set up steering on the Dana 44 might be (keeping it full-width at 65") @mrblaine could you maybe give me the 411 on this part?

Thanks for your time
Click to expand...
The easier routes tend to compromise one or more rules of thumb regarding good steering.
Draglink and trackbar should be the same length and in the same plane front to back.
Avoid the use the high misalignment rod ends on the draglink. HMA versions reduce the race size to increase angularity which leads to quicker wear.
Use high misalignment tie rod ends for the draglink.
Do NOT use typical high steer arms on the knuckles for the tie rod attachment. That leads to a severe compromise of the Ackermann angles and horrid steering. The tie rod should attach to the knuckles outside of the King Pin Axis if at all possible. If not possible, push them out as far as can be done.
Do not compromise Ackermann in favor of clearance. Build a tougher tie rod first.
If the trackbar axle side mount is inboard of the spring, you're doing it wrong.
Try to build comprehensively taking all factors into account. Do not build some bizarre steering that forces you to move your 15" rims out to 3" of backspacing. Instead, consider a larger diameter rim and moving them in with 4-5" of backspacing to steer better, easier, and far longer with regard to component wear. If the tire can pivot around the middle of the contact patch when the tires are turned lock to lock, everything is much happier.
Don't overlook the importance of brakes during the steering design. It is very common to build the steering and toss on brakes as an afterthought and wind up with something that can't be easily fixed without redoing the steering which no one ever does.
Don't pick out a pretty 15" rim and then build the steering and brakes around it. Sure it might look good to you, but the annoyance of driving an ill handling piece of shit with crappy brakes will soon make that joy go away.
Steering set up right is hard for most. There is no easy way to do it. It takes time, consideration, expense, patience, and the willingness to endlessly cycle stuff and start over when it doesn't do what it is supposed to do.

My apologies for not giving you the pat answer you were looking for.
 
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@mrblaine Yeah I was thinking about keeping a low tierod just to make it simpler. So you're saying make sure the tierods mount outboard the balljoint axis? Arent most knuckles directly inline?
And so doing this would be crossover but not high crossover correct?

Also if you know of any links that you might have handy that could school me up on the topic I would be forever greatful!
 
89107

So then @mrblaine, being a steering noob such as myself do you think my best option to get rolling would be to just stick with a ylink kit like ruffstuff makes and do a high-y ? I've been looking around for builders parts to get a good crossover steering setup going like you described but it seems most companies just sell brackets that mount the trackbar inboard of the springs.
 
7slotMT said:
View attachment 89107
So then @mrblaine, being a steering noob such as myself do you think my best option to get rolling would be to just stick with a ylink kit like ruffstuff makes and do a high-y ? I've been looking around for builders parts to get a good crossover steering setup going like you described but it seems most companies just sell brackets that mount the trackbar inboard of the springs.
Click to expand...
That isn't Y link, that is inverted T and not much sucks more than that. You can't see it on the right one but on the left you can see that the tie rod is considerable inboard of the OEM steering arm. That steering is all the things I warned not to do.
 
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This is my setup on jk axles so almost as wide. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of good pictures of my front end setup. My first try was with the track bar exactly parallel to the drag link but several inches shorter as it was inboard of the spring. The bump steer was so bad I could barely keep it in one lane on the highway.

Second try moved the axle side bracket out as far as I could get it and the track bar and drag link totally parallel and the same length. A small bend was needed in the drag link to clear the track bar but not much. (the original owner of this axle cut the knuckles and I lived with it... I should have replaced right from the start.)
b66ac31a6245b71c33369e540ca146a9.jpg


This drove great except the heim joins would be completely shot after every season even with no winter driving.

I then bit the bullet and switched to tie rod ends and Rancho (Reid knock off) knuckles. This drove great as the extra height didn't change the angle of the drag link much so everything still works.

8d5ba55bb405357dd8c3a44eda6c1100.jpg
b3dbb33b4a2cbcd91507d7159c73a167.jpg


The frame side track bar bracket is offset to allow the track bar to be a couple of inches longer. You may or may not need to look into this. I used tmr customs brackets but there's plenty of options out there. The custom nature of the axle side bracket let me put the track bar exactly where I needed it by cutting some off as needed. It took some time and money to get right but it was worth it. Doing it badly sucked in so many ways.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
Drizit said:
This is my setup on jk axles so almost as wide. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of good pictures of my front end setup. My first try was with the track bar exactly parallel to the drag link but several inches shorter as it was inboard of the spring. The bump steer was so bad I could barely keep it in one lane on the highway.

Second try moved the axle side bracket out as far as I could get it and the track bar and drag link totally parallel and the same length. A small bend was needed in the drag link to clear the track bar but not much. (the original owner of this axle cut the knuckles and I lived with it... I should have replaced right from the start.) View attachment 89142

This drove great except the heim joins would be completely shot after every season even with no winter driving.

I then bit the bullet and switched to tie rod ends and Rancho (Reid knock off) knuckles. This drove great as the extra height didn't change the angle of the drag link much so everything still works.

View attachment 89143View attachment 89144

The frame side track bar bracket is offset to allow the track bar to be a couple of inches longer. You may or may not need to look into this. I used tmr customs brackets but there's plenty of options out there. The custom nature of the axle side bracket let me put the track bar exactly where I needed it by cutting some off as needed. It took some time and money to get right but it was worth it. Doing it badly sucked in so many ways.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
Click to expand...
Awesome I appreciate it! Looks good and makes it easier to visualize
 
Drizit said:
This is my setup on jk axles so almost as wide. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of good pictures of my front end setup. My first try was with the track bar exactly parallel to the drag link but several inches shorter as it was inboard of the spring. The bump steer was so bad I could barely keep it in one lane on the highway.
Click to expand...

I debated that incessantly for years with a guy who had the WJ set up on his rig with the inboard trackbar mount. His point over and over was that since I didn't run it, I couldn't possible know that it had bumpsteer. I even explained that the average person with just a smattering of understanding of suspension and how it travels can look at a link set up with a short set of uppers and long lowers and figure out that there is a lot of caster change throughout the range of motion. He continued to insist that didn't apply while ignoring the obvious of them being identical. If something is controlled by links and the geometry is incorrect, you won't get the desired results.

This is how I did it for the same axle.
DSC_2976.jpg
 
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