Nikki's yellow throwback Jeep

[mrblaine]

The challenge is the 05-06 will start and run without the OPDA signal or a crankshaft position signal. When it arrived here, we tried to start it and after a second key cycle and a long crank, it fired up, poorly but enough to drive it in. First thing check and set the OPDA, this one was one with the drive gear 180 out so we unpinned it and re-pinned it correctly on the shaft after we didn't like the way it lined up relative to the block.

Also a lesson for those that just use position to set one. The first thing you should do is lay the old and new side by side and make sure the drive gear is the same orientation on the shaft.

After we got the OPDA correct it was still a long two cycle crank to get it to run. The DRB showed that it was not getting a signal from the cam sensor indirectly since there was no angle difference between cam and crank with it showing as 0.00.

We stopped there to see if the signal loss was due to something in the harness or connector after we swapped in a known good cam sensor. We spent time checking the harness, pulling apart the PCM connector, running a continuity test on the wires and carefully looking for a broken or bad wire.

Each of the times we got it to start, we knew it wasn't right and you can hear the odd misfire when it is trying to start without the OPDA or crank signal. It sounds like a motor does when a distributor is way out.

We were stumped so we dug into a diagnostic tree that we have access to in some dealer stuff and it showed that a loss of crank signal would show up as a cam sensor bad or cam synch issue.

Grabbed a known good crank position sensor and it fired right up with no issues, no codes, nothing. After a 45 minute test drive at surface street and highway speeds it still had no codes. Good as we can get it for now. The timing on OPDA is .2 which is well within the range of 10 degrees of either side of 0.

The main clue was the crank and cam angle difference showing as 0.00 on the factory DRB scanner. Not sure how many parts you can swap out without that kernel of knowledge.

 

[Midnight LJR]

The challenge is the 05-06 will start and run without the OPDA signal or a crankshaft position signal. When it arrived here, we tried to start it and after a second key cycle and a long crank, it fired up, poorly but enough to drive it in. First thing check and set the OPDA, this one was one with the drive gear 180 out so we unpinned it and re-pinned it correctly on the shaft after we didn't like the way it lined up relative to the block.

Also a lesson for those that just use position to set one. The first think you should do is lay the old and new side by side and make sure the drive gear is the same orientation on the shaft.

After we got the OPDA correct it was still a long two cycle crank to get it to run. The DRB showed that it was not getting a signal from the cam sensor indirectly since there was no angle difference between cam and crank with it showing as 0.00.

We stopped there to see if the signal loss was due to something in the harness or connector after we swapped in a known good cam sensor. We spent time checking the harness, pulling apart the PCM connector, running a continuity test on the wires and carefully looking for a broken or bad wire.

Each of the times we got it to start, we knew it wasn't right and you can hear the odd misfire when it is trying to start without the OPDA or crank signal. It sounds like a motor does when a distributor is way out.

We were stumped so we dug into a diagnostic tree that we have access to in some dealer stuff and it showed that a loss of crank signal would show up as a cam sensor bad or cam synch issue.

Grabbed a known good crank position sensor and it fired right up with no issues, no codes, nothing. After a 45 minute test drive at surface street and highway speeds it still had no codes. Good as we can get it for now. The timing on OPDA is .2 which is well within the range of 10 degrees of either side of 0.

The main clue was the crank and cam angle difference showing as 0.00 on the factory DRB scanner. Not sure how many parts you can swap out without that kernel of knowledge.

Glad you got this fixed Blaine. I am sure someone else will need this knowledge in the future. I know I am gonna try to remember that code can be the crank sensor.

On the positive side the jeep did at least allow you to wheel all week, and you have a way better story now then “had a boring drive home”.

 

[mrblaine]

Glad you got this fixed Blaine. I am sure someone else will need this knowledge in the future. I know I am gonna try to remember that code can be the crank sensor.

On the positive side the jeep did at least allow you to wheel all week, and you have a way better story now then “had a boring drive home”.

It gets worse, drilling down the diagnostic tree it also shows that a bad cam sensor can throw a crank sensor code.

 

[JMT]

So I’ll share this story here. On my way out to Moab, about 2 hours from town, my rig threw a CEL and went into limp mode. I limped into town and checked into my Airbnb and went to bed. The next day I went to the orielly and used the scanner and had a P0344, camshaft position sensor intermittent. I checked all the wiring and pulled the sensor and cleaned it and put it back and no more code. since there was no more code and no limp mode I went wheeling. I Wheeled all week with @Alex01 @DylanM345 @Daryl @JMT @Midnight LJR @taylormade73 with no problem.View attachment 250832View attachment 250833View attachment 250834View attachment 250836View attachment 250837View attachment 250838View attachment 250839View attachment 250840Had an absolutely amazing experience. I learned a lot about my rig and myself. Then on the last day the CEL reared it’s ugly orange glow again. @Midnight LJR , @taylormade73 came over to help me out and @DrDmoney lent me his code scanner. P0344. For safe measure I ordered a new camshaft position sensor at the beginning of the week so I replaced the sensor and the rig threw a P0016, camshaft position sensor out of sync with crankshaft position sensor and a P0344. I called @mrblaine who walked me through some trouble shooting steps of rotating the OPDA. Reset the codes and test drove it. No code. Loaded up the jeep for the long drive home and went to bed. Got up early and hit the road, after a half hour at highway speed P0344 came back. After some sensor trouble shooting and some chatting with @mrblaine I decided to tow it home. @taylormade73 and his wife drove me an hour outside of Moab in the opposite direction they were traveling to get me to my uhaul, thanks guys! Then once I got my uhaul I drove another 3 hours to get the trailer, then back to Moab to load the jeep. Whaddya know the provided ratchet straps don’t fit. They were the over the tire type. Bought straps, loaded her up and drove through the night back to San Diego. Once back in San Diego I had a new Mopar camshaft position sensor waiting for me and a new Crown OPDA. With some instructions from @mrblaine and @taylormade73 I got the motor to TDC and installed my new OPDA with high hopes. Now the jeep won’t even start. I checked the wiring looking for shorts, nothing. Got the jeep loaded on a flatbed tow truck and sent it up to Blaine. He can describe what he did better than I but he and his helper trouble shot the rig for 7 hours. Checked all the wiring, checked the connectors, repositioned the new OPDA, even swapped pcms. Finally after all that Blaine swapped the crankshaft position sensor. Fixed. Makes perfect sense, a camshaft position sensor code for a bad crankshaft position sensor. A million times thanks to those who helped me out with this and to @mrblaine for not getting frustrated with me and fixing the weird issue and building a rig I have more fun learning about and driving each and every day.

View attachment 250835

Those can be a real bear. So intermittent and weird. Glad you didn’t get stuck way out on a trail like TOTW, and glad you got home safe.

 

[mrblaine]

Those can be a real bear. So intermittent and weird. Glad you didn’t get stuck way out on a trail like TOTW, and glad you got home safe.

The part that is a bitch is the 05-06 will start and run with the OPDA unplugged or the crank position sensor unplugged. Best we can figure is the CPS was doing just enough to get it to fire off every once in awhile.

 

[JMT]

The part that is a bitch is the 05-06 will start and run with the OPDA unplugged or the crank position sensor unplugged. Best we can figure is the CPS was doing just enough to get it to fire off every once in awhile.

I’ve never had that particular problem on my 05, but I somehow lost TDC when I preventatively changed the OPDA to avoid screaming monkeys. As I read your post I realized I had a 50:50 chance to get the OPDA oriented right:wrong. I must have got mine right. Original OPDA was fine even though it was within the dates.

 

[Nickgsjeep]

The challenge is the 05-06 will start and run without the OPDA signal or a crankshaft position signal. When it arrived here, we tried to start it and after a second key cycle and a long crank, it fired up, poorly but enough to drive it in. First thing check and set the OPDA, this one was one with the drive gear 180 out so we unpinned it and re-pinned it correctly on the shaft after we didn't like the way it lined up relative to the block.

Also a lesson for those that just use position to set one. The first thing you should do is lay the old and new side by side and make sure the drive gear is the same orientation on the shaft.

After we got the OPDA correct it was still a long two cycle crank to get it to run. The DRB showed that it was not getting a signal from the cam sensor indirectly since there was no angle difference between cam and crank with it showing as 0.00.

We stopped there to see if the signal loss was due to something in the harness or connector after we swapped in a known good cam sensor. We spent time checking the harness, pulling apart the PCM connector, running a continuity test on the wires and carefully looking for a broken or bad wire.

Each of the times we got it to start, we knew it wasn't right and you can hear the odd misfire when it is trying to start without the OPDA or crank signal. It sounds like a motor does when a distributor is way out.

We were stumped so we dug into a diagnostic tree that we have access to in some dealer stuff and it showed that a loss of crank signal would show up as a cam sensor bad or cam synch issue.

Grabbed a known good crank position sensor and it fired right up with no issues, no codes, nothing. After a 45 minute test drive at surface street and highway speeds it still had no codes. Good as we can get it for now. The timing on OPDA is .2 which is well within the range of 10 degrees of either side of 0.

The main clue was the crank and cam angle difference showing as 0.00 on the factory DRB scanner. Not sure how many parts you can swap out without that kernel of knowledge.

This is why I am so grateful. I would have never figured this out and I don’t know many others who “might” have. Thanks for dropping this information here. Hopefully it helps someone else in the future too. Again thanks for getting it dialed in.

 

[mrblaine]

This is why I am so grateful. I would have never figured this out and I don’t know many others who “might” have. Thanks for dropping this information here. Hopefully it helps someone else in the future too. Again thanks for it dialed in.

Not that it matters now but I wasn't sure we were going to figure it out either after the other PCM showed the same issues.

 

[CaliSteve]

So I’ll share this story here. On my way out to Moab, about 2 hours from town, my rig threw a CEL and went into limp mode. I limped into town and checked into my Airbnb and went to bed. The next day I went to the orielly and used the scanner and had a P0344, camshaft position sensor intermittent. I checked all the wiring and pulled the sensor and cleaned it and put it back and no more code. since there was no more code and no limp mode I went wheeling. I Wheeled all week with @Alex01 @DylanM345 @Daryl @JMT @Midnight LJR @taylormade73 with no problem.View attachment 250832View attachment 250833View attachment 250834View attachment 250836View attachment 250837View attachment 250838View attachment 250839View attachment 250840Had an absolutely amazing experience. I learned a lot about my rig and myself. Then on the last day the CEL reared it’s ugly orange glow again. @Midnight LJR , @taylormade73 came over to help me out and @DrDmoney lent me his code scanner. P0344. For safe measure I ordered a new camshaft position sensor at the beginning of the week so I replaced the sensor and the rig threw a P0016, camshaft position sensor out of sync with crankshaft position sensor and a P0344. I called @mrblaine who walked me through some trouble shooting steps of rotating the OPDA. Reset the codes and test drove it. No code. Loaded up the jeep for the long drive home and went to bed. Got up early and hit the road, after a half hour at highway speed P0344 came back. After some sensor trouble shooting and some chatting with @mrblaine I decided to tow it home. @taylormade73 and his wife drove me an hour outside of Moab in the opposite direction they were traveling to get me to my uhaul, thanks guys! Then once I got my uhaul I drove another 3 hours to get the trailer, then back to Moab to load the jeep. Whaddya know the provided ratchet straps don’t fit. They were the over the tire type. Bought straps, loaded her up and drove through the night back to San Diego. Once back in San Diego I had a new Mopar camshaft position sensor waiting for me and a new Crown OPDA. With some instructions from @mrblaine and @taylormade73 I got the motor to TDC and installed my new OPDA with high hopes. Now the jeep won’t even start. I checked the wiring looking for shorts, nothing. Got the jeep loaded on a flatbed tow truck and sent it up to Blaine. He can describe what he did better than I but he and his helper trouble shot the rig for 7 hours. Checked all the wiring, checked the connectors, repositioned the new OPDA, even swapped pcms. Finally after all that Blaine swapped the crankshaft position sensor. Fixed. Makes perfect sense, a camshaft position sensor code for a bad crankshaft position sensor. A million times thanks to those who helped me out with this and to @mrblaine for not getting frustrated with me and fixing the weird issue and building a rig I have more fun learning about and driving each and every day.

View attachment 250835

Wow, sorry to hear that problem came up again, you should have called me, could have put yours on my trailer and you would have driven mine back. At least you got it handled.

 

[mrblaine]

Wow, sorry to hear that problem came up again, you should have called me, could have put yours on my trailer and you would have driven mine back. At least you got it handled.

I didn't realize you had your trailer there or that would have been my top suggestion.

 

[Nickgsjeep]

Wow, sorry to hear that problem came up again, you should have called me, could have put yours on my trailer and you would have driven mine back. At least you got it handled.

Oh man, thanks Steve. In the thick of it all it totally slipped my mind.

 

[CaliSteve]

I didn't realize you had your trailer there or that would have been my top suggest

Oh man, thanks Steve. In the thick of it all it totally slipped my mind.

Its all good now, sounds like one of those problems to make a guy crazy.

 

[bobthetj03]

Holy crap! Didn't realize all this happened! Glad you made it home safe. Was good to meet you for the 3.5 seconds we met, lol!

 

[psrivats]

@Nickgsjeep thanks for sharing. Crazy story. These 05-06s have all sorts of little differences like these. If I were to ever buy a TJ again, I'll go for the 03-04s.

@mrblaine thanks for sharing the debug.I just shudder to think If it took you this much time, most places would have taken the customer for a fun, expensive, parts exchange.

 

[1904-06LJR]

Definitely logging this one in the back of my brain. Thank you Nick and Blaine for sharing!

 

[Nickgsjeep]

In today's episode of "Gremlins Ate My Jeep" the fun continues with no start, long cranking to start, followed by a CEL and P0340 code. Tune in for more "Wits End" excitement with Nick and Blaine!

Ok, so the drive home from @mrblaine 's place went great. Over an hour driving at highway speed with no problem. Park the rig, write my report and go to bed.

Day 1: Wake up to start the jeep to take my daughter to dance and the jeep wont start. Out of sheer frustration I tried a handful of times, finally just letting it crank until it finally starts. All the while trying the CEL is flashing, and when I get it to actually start I shut it down and click the key over and check the code. P0340 which is for the camshaft position sensor circuit interruption. Needless to say my brain is hurting. I called Mr. Blaine and told him what happened and we agree to chat after I take my daughter to dance. By the time I get back the day is nice and warm. I clear the code and get in the Jeep and it fires right up, WTF. I drive it around for a few hours, I drive it nice, I drive it like an asshole, I drive it at highway speeds, I drive it on regular streets, I stop to do some last minute mothers day shopping. It is fine all day long.

Day 2: I get up nice and early to try and start the Jeep. It is chilly outside. Jeep wont start. Try about 15 times, last long crank gets it to fire. It throws a P0340. I limp it around town to warm it up and I clear the code. It fires right up no problem. I drive it a little longer, no issues. I'm developing a hypothesis. I park the jeep and let it sit for 2 hours. It is now sunny warm mid day. Fires right up no problem. I let it run until at operating temp. I pull the new Mopar camshaft position sensor and put it in the freezer, I put my other new Mopar camshaft position sensor in the sun. After about 15 minutes I install the freezer sensor. No start. Lots of tries finally starts with a P0340 code. I clear the code and pull the freezer sensor. I install the sunny sensor. Fires right up no problem.

Now I'm not a doctor but something is telling me there is a flaw in the Mopar camshaft position sensors I ordered from amazon. After a short discussion with Mr. Blaine, he advised I try the old camshaft position sensor from the factory. I installed that sensor and no issues. I went out after it was good and dark and cooled off and it fired right up.

Now the question is how much longer is the life of this sensor from the factory and what brand to purchase for a backup? To be continued...

 

[DrDmoney]

In today's episode of "Gremlins Ate My Jeep" the fun continues with no start, long cranking to start, followed by a CEL and P0340 code. Tune in for more "Wits End" excitement with Nick and Blaine!

Ok, so the drive home from @mrblaine 's place went great. Over an hour driving at highway speed with no problem. Park the rig, write my report and go to bed.

Day 1: Wake up to start the jeep to take my daughter to dance and the jeep wont start. Out of sheer frustration I tried a handful of times, finally just letting it crank until it finally starts. All the while trying the CEL is flashing, and when I get it to actually start I shut it down and click the key over and check the code. P0340 which is for the camshaft position sensor circuit interruption. Needless to say my brain is hurting. I called Mr. Blaine and told him what happened and we agree to chat after I take my daughter to dance. By the time I get back the day is nice and warm. I clear the code and get in the Jeep and it fires right up, WTF. I drive it around for a few hours, I drive it nice, I drive it like an asshole, I drive it at highway speeds, I drive it on regular streets, I stop to do some last minute mothers day shopping. It is fine all day long.

Day 2: I get up nice and early to try and start the Jeep. It is chilly outside. Jeep wont start. Try about 15 times, last long crank gets it to fire. It throws a P0340. I limp it around town to warm it up and I clear the code. It fires right up no problem. I drive it a little longer, no issues. I'm developing a hypothesis. I park the jeep and let it sit for 2 hours. It is now sunny warm mid day. Fires right up no problem. I let it run until at operating temp. I pull the new Mopar camshaft position sensor and put it in the freezer, I put my other new Mopar camshaft position sensor in the sun. After about 15 minutes I install the freezer sensor. No start. Lots of tries finally starts with a P0340 code. I clear the code and pull the freezer sensor. I install the sunny sensor. Fires right up no problem.

Now I'm not a doctor but something is telling me there is a flaw in the Mopar camshaft position sensors I ordered from amazon. After a short discussion with Mr. Blaine, he advised I try the old camshaft position sensor from the factory. I installed that sensor and no issues. I went out after it was good and dark and cooled off and it fired right up.

Now the question is how much longer is the life of this sensor from the factory and what brand to purchase for a backup? To be continued...

Man that’s crazy, sorry to hear you’re still having issues.

 

[Frank M]

I had the same issues with the sensor shortly after replacing the opda and the temp dropped at night, used the new sensor because I broke the original one trying to remove it.
Tried several different sensors and had the same issue, would start fine at first then after sitting and the temp outside dropped it would have the long crank then PO340. Clear the code after it warmed up and everything was fine.
Finally found an original factory sensor and haven’t had an issue.

 

[mrblaine]

In today's episode of "Gremlins Ate My Jeep" the fun continues with no start, long cranking to start, followed by a CEL and P0340 code. Tune in for more "Wits End" excitement with Nick and Blaine!

Ok, so the drive home from @mrblaine 's place went great. Over an hour driving at highway speed with no problem. Park the rig, write my report and go to bed.

Day 1: Wake up to start the jeep to take my daughter to dance and the jeep wont start. Out of sheer frustration I tried a handful of times, finally just letting it crank until it finally starts. All the while trying the CEL is flashing, and when I get it to actually start I shut it down and click the key over and check the code. P0340 which is for the camshaft position sensor circuit interruption. Needless to say my brain is hurting. I called Mr. Blaine and told him what happened and we agree to chat after I take my daughter to dance. By the time I get back the day is nice and warm. I clear the code and get in the Jeep and it fires right up, WTF. I drive it around for a few hours, I drive it nice, I drive it like an asshole, I drive it at highway speeds, I drive it on regular streets, I stop to do some last minute mothers day shopping. It is fine all day long.

Day 2: I get up nice and early to try and start the Jeep. It is chilly outside. Jeep wont start. Try about 15 times, last long crank gets it to fire. It throws a P0340. I limp it around town to warm it up and I clear the code. It fires right up no problem. I drive it a little longer, no issues. I'm developing a hypothesis. I park the jeep and let it sit for 2 hours. It is now sunny warm mid day. Fires right up no problem. I let it run until at operating temp. I pull the new Mopar camshaft position sensor and put it in the freezer, I put my other new Mopar camshaft position sensor in the sun. After about 15 minutes I install the freezer sensor. No start. Lots of tries finally starts with a P0340 code. I clear the code and pull the freezer sensor. I install the sunny sensor. Fires right up no problem.

Now I'm not a doctor but something is telling me there is a flaw in the Mopar camshaft position sensors I ordered from amazon. After a short discussion with Mr. Blaine, he advised I try the old camshaft position sensor from the factory. I installed that sensor and no issues. I went out after it was good and dark and cooled off and it fired right up.

Now the question is how much longer is the life of this sensor from the factory and what brand to purchase for a backup? To be continued...

I do NOT like fixing stuff that isn't fixed. I also don't like not knowing that a cold sensor from Mopar can cause this. In none of the testing, test driving etc. that we did was there ever any indication that this sort of crap was a possibility. I am concerned that we had 2 bad sensors taking turns being little jerks.

 

[Nickgsjeep]

I do NOT like fixing stuff that isn't fixed. I also don't like not knowing that a cold sensor from Mopar can cause this. In none of the testing, test driving etc. that we did was there ever any indication that this sort of crap was a possibility. I am concerned that we had 2 bad sensors taking turns being little jerks.

Clearly one could not have predicted this type of fair weather fuckery from a Mopar sensor. You fixed the main issue that had me stuck in Moab. The new sensor brought with it a new issue.