Not sure I want this promotion

[Chris]

It's a funny thing about increases. You see, I'm in a position where I most often times am the one who makes the decision on how much of an increase my crew members will get. Sometimes I'm given a budget that I'm not to exceed (typically would happen during a slow year). If I have someone who deserves something above and beyond, I'll fight for them. Twice now, I have gone directly to the president of the company and proposed that they retract my pay increase, and split it among two or three crew members that I felt deserved more than I was allowed (budgetarily) to give them. Both times I was told that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do that, but both times they turned around and upped the increases for my crew.

Money means more to some folks than it does to others. For some, it's the primary way that they feel rewarded for their efforts, and it's the best acknowledgement they can receive. For me, it's a little different. I'm comfortable. I'm not rich, but I'm not poor, either. I live within my means. I have a little extra cash to spend on what I want (if I want it bad enough), but more importantly, I always have enough to cover my bills. My home is old, but comfortable. I get to play with my cars. I feel appreciated at work, but not just in a monetary sense. I guess what I'm saying is that while yes, I am curious as to what the pay increase would be, it's really only a small portion of the deciding factor for me. Does that make any sense?

Yes, but just think about the ever rising taxes in King Country. Once you start thinking about that, then all of a sudden more money doesn't sound like a bad thing

I get what you're saying though, I do. There's more to life than money.

 

[Squatch]

Based on what you describe, it sounds like the only potential benefits are an increase in satisfaction and perhaps the satisfaction of meeting a new challenge. You definitely seem to have a better grasp on what you perceive to be the negatives with this promotion than the positives. Assuming you are otherwise comfortable with your current compensation, I'm guessing you would need at least a 30-40% raise to make the negatives due to the new position worthwhile. FWIW, after many years of project management I made the conscious decision to go back to actually performing and managing the work instead of people. I am much happier, less stressed, and compensated well-enough to suit my needs. Good luck with your decision.

Thanks, man. I know this company well enough to know that a 30-40% increase is not in the realm of possibility, so I can rule that out. And I do believe you're right: I don't truly know what the positives might be, at this point. Pay? Maybe. I know that I would be in a position to change the way we do some things. I haven't always agreed with the way my boss handles things, and I'd be in a place where I could correct some of that to better suit my way of doing things.

 

[Rick Flair]

It's a funny thing about increases. You see, I'm in a position where I most often times am the one who makes the decision on how much of an increase my crew members will get. Sometimes I'm given a budget that I'm not to exceed (typically would happen during a slow year). If I have someone who deserves something above and beyond, I'll fight for them. Twice now, I have gone directly to the president of the company and proposed that they retract my pay increase, and split it among two or three crew members that I felt deserved more than I was allowed (budgetarily) to give them. Both times I was told that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do that, but both times they turned around and upped the increases for my crew.

Money means more to some folks than it does to others. For some, it's the primary way that they feel rewarded for their efforts, and it's the best acknowledgement they can receive. For me, it's a little different. I'm comfortable. I'm not rich, but I'm not poor, either. I live within my means. I have a little extra cash to spend on what I want (if I want it bad enough), but more importantly, I always have enough to cover my bills. My home is old, but comfortable. I get to play with my cars. I feel appreciated at work, but not just in a monetary sense. I guess what I'm saying is that while yes, I am curious as to what the pay increase would be, it's really only a small portion of the deciding factor for me. Does that make any sense?

I get that. And I gave up 50-80k a year more than I make. I would be more comfortable than I am now but I would have had a sacrifice that I didn’t feel worth it.


Not the same but close. I get it man, and you have more integrity than most. It’s a good thing you stood up for your guys and fought for them. That’s a ideal boss. Most don’t think of others in that regard.



I gladly call brother for a reason.

 

[Squatch]

I get that. And I gave up 50-80k a year more than I make. I would be more comfortable than I am now but I would have had a sacrifice that I didn’t feel worth it.


Not the same but close. I get it man, and you have more integrity than most. It’s a good thing you stood up for your guys and fought for them. That’s a ideal boss. Most don’t think of others in that regard.



I gladly call brother for a reason.

Thanks, brother. You have no idea how much I appreciate that. You only get out of this life what you're willing to put into it, ya know? And I've been blessed to know some good folks in my life.

 

[Rick Flair]

Thanks, brother. You have no idea how much I appreciate that. You only get out of this life what you're willing to put into it, ya know? And I've been blessed to know some good folks in my life.

I don’t have many friends and the ones I consider friends, are special to me.

Yes, the things you put in you get back ten fold.

 

[Squatch]

I don’t have many friends and the ones I consider friends, are special to me.

Yes, the things you put in you get back ten fold.

Absolutely.

 

[zebra12]

I've supervised folks for a while. Being a good supervisor is a challenge, being a shit supervisor is easy. I got tired of working for poor decision makers so I advanced. I do miss the time when I was mostly just responsible for me, but long term that was not a path I would have been satisfied with.

I think it comes down to with the information you have now, which path will make you happier.

 

[Squatch]

I've supervised folks for a while. Being a good supervisor is a challenge, being a shit supervisor is easy. I got tired of working for poor decision makers so I advanced. I do miss the time when I was mostly just responsible for me, but long term that was not a path I would have been satisfied with.

I think it comes down to with the information you have now, which path will make you happier.

I gave up being responsible for no one else but myself years ago, so that wouldn't change at all. Single biggest concerns are additional stress, and the traffic (which is truly just another form of stress). Like has been pointed out earlier, it would seem that I have a fairly good grasp of the negative aspects of the position, but it's the positives that are more elusive. As others have suggested, I should probably sit down with the powers that be, and ask a few more questions so that I can be better equipped to make a decision.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Honestly, I would go for it. When things get tough I'm kindof the "grin and bear it" type and i feel like I could put up with a lot if I knew I only had to do it for 4 years, especially if it materially improved my retirement position. Hell, it might not be the worst thing to finish your career with a crap job so you can retire without any second thoughts and not end up one of those guys that likes his job so much that he works until he dies.

That said, I'm 37, and a year ago I was offered a job by a former employer, out of nowhere when I was perfectly satisfied and wasn't looking, had just been told I was being promoted, and had bought land and was 3 weeks away from breaking ground on a house. I had a unique skill set and job security, made decent money and the pay increases were modest but consistent. It was comfortable. But I took the offer and got a $38k pay increase in exchange for moving into a position where instead of having seasoned guys to lean on when I need help, I'm now the "expert" and if I need help it's pretty much up to me to just figure it out. I report to the VP as a one man project team for a project that to our company is worth 2x our annual revenue but is pocket change to our customer, the largest retailer in the world. It can be stressful, takes longer hours and more travel, and it's easily the most technically challenging position I've ever had. And I'm loving it.

 

[SubLime]

Take the emotion out of the decision.

Find out how much extra money.
Do you lose a shift differential? Loss of OT? Salary now instead of hourly? Added travel time?
Remember the extra money is only for 4 years. Will the added stress be worth it.

And lastly, will your other half be able to handle you being home in the evening?

 

[Squatch]

Honestly, I would go for it. When things get tough I'm kindof the "grin and bear it" type and i feel like I could put up with a lot if I knew I only had to do it for 4 years, especially if it materially improved my retirement position. Hell, it might not be the worst thing to finish your career with a crap job so you can retire without any second thoughts and not end up one of those guys that likes his job so much that he works until he dies.

That said, I'm 37, and a year ago I was offered a job by a former employer, out of nowhere when I was perfectly satisfied and wasn't looking, had just been told I was being promoted, and had bought land and was 3 weeks away from breaking ground on a house. I had a unique skill set and job security, made decent money and the pay increases were modest but consistent. It was comfortable. But I took the offer and got a $38k pay increase in exchange for moving into a position where instead of having seasoned guys to lean on when I need help, I'm now the "expert" and if I need help it's pretty much up to me to just figure it out. I report to the VP as a one man project team for a project that to our company is worth 2x our annual revenue but is pocket change to our customer, the largest retailer in the world. It can be stressful, takes longer hours and more travel, and it's easily the most technically challenging position I've ever had. And I'm loving it.

Dude! I'm thoroughly impressed! I could easily see your point in (relate to) the first paragraph of your post, but the second paragraph is above and beyond anything I would ever have considered. Kudos to you, my friend!

 

[Squatch]

Take the emotion out of the decision.

Find out how much extra money.
Do you lose a shift differential? Loss of OT? Salary now instead of hourly? Added travel time?
Remember the extra money is only for 4 years. Will the added stress be worth it.

And lastly, will your other half be able to handle you being home in the evening?

*I agree about removing the emotion from making the decision. I am guilty of making decisions based on emotion more than I care to admit.
*I need to find out about the pay, for sure.
*There is no shift diff, so there's that. I'm already salary, so OT was factored into my base pay. Extra travel time is truly a concern.
*The extra money/4 years/added stress worth it question is the biggie, and the crux of my dilemma.

*That final one makes me laugh! Yeah, we get along well enough. She currently works the same shift as I do, and has said that she would likely change shifts to continue to be able to spend time with me.

 

[BonesXX]

Some bullets:

You must know if there is a pay difference before making a decision. Might make it a no brainer either way. Same pay-NO. Better pay-hmmm

Will you have the resources to meet expectations? If you don’t, life as a manager is miserable

Will the position pay effect your retirement pay? Sometimes pension/401k gets better as pay grade increases.

I would objectively evaluate the commute times. 6am is not normally peak in the parts of the country I have lived in, nor is 2-3 pm.

 

[Squatch]

Some bullets:

You must know if there is a pay difference before making a decision. Might make it a no brainer either way. Same pay-NO. Better pay-hmmm

Will you have the resources to meet expectations? If you don’t, life as a manager is miserable

Will the position pay effect your retirement pay? Sometimes pension/401k gets better as pay grade increases.

I would objectively evaluate the commute times. 6am is not normally peak in the parts of the country I have lived in, nor is 2-3 pm.

All good points. Thank you.

So, I agree with your first bullet. As to the second one, yes...I do believe I'm capable of meeting their expectations. Most of what I do now is very similar to what my boss currently does, just a little less of it. My boss and the plant manager have told me as much, and I've been living that reality for years. As for my retirement, there is no pension plan, and my 401k is somewhat minimal, unfortunately. My retirement will be from the sale of my house, and moving to a more affordable area (state). It just is what it is. And finally, while I generally agree with your assessment of peak commute times, the Seattle area is somewhat infamous for its traffic issues over the past several years. Having said that, however, there is the chance, I suppose, that I could negotiate a different start time. Perhaps one that would get me in earlier (5:00am, perhaps) and out by 2:30pm, before all hell breaks loose out on the roads.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Apparition]

All good points. Thank you.

So, I agree with your first bullet. As to the second one, yes...I do believe I'm capable of meeting their expectations. Most of what I do now is very similar to what my boss currently does, just a little less of it. My boss and the plant manager have told me as much, and I've been living that reality for years. As for my retirement, there is no pension plan, and my 401k is somewhat minimal, unfortunately. My retirement will be from the sale of my house, and moving to a more affordable area (state). It just is what it is. And finally, while I generally agree with your assessment of peak commute times, the Seattle area is somewhat infamous for its traffic issues over the past several years. Having said that, however, there is the chance, I suppose, that I could negotiate a different start time. Perhaps one that would get me in earlier (5:00am, perhaps) and out by 2:30pm, before all hell breaks loose out on the roads.

Thanks again for the input.

A guy that works for me is planning his retirement. He said that the rate his social security will be paid is dependent on his pay rate. I think thats what Bones is getting at. I don’t know the specifics.

They always say in business/management the goal is to rise to your level of incompetence.

 

[Westtown Willy]

nobody likes change, but, sometimes an abrupt buck eighty in life foisted upon you, or by choice, turns out to be a blessing you never knew you wanted, happened to me a few times now & it's been nothing but positive.

 

[JKLNHYD]

The fact that you're close to retirement makes the promotion more appealing IMO because it's an additional 3-4 years of boosting the eventual social security and, if it applies, your 401K, etc. Seeing that you have stated you have turned down raises to share between others is TRULY what leadership is about. Taking care of your people because they are the ones making things happen everyday. It sounds like you're the perfect person for this promotion, based on that bit of information you have provided. Lastly, taking the promotion actually puts you in a better position to take even better care of those that will work there long after you retire. It's a win for everybody. There's no shame in taking the job for 3-5 years and still retiring either.

 

[jeepguy03]

I have one question. You state that you are happy where you are, which is great and understandable. With your boss retiring, if someone else were to take the position would they be able to have any impact on the current status of your happiness if they wanted to change things?

I only say that because I have a friend in a similar situation, who turned down a management position only to have the company hire someone from the outside that is currently making his life a living hell. He is also only a few years away from retirement, but now his stress level has doubled. Management is good and bad. While you gain more responsibility and pressure, you also have the ability to make decisions and a positive impact on those around you.

 

[ballpark]

37 years! Wow! I just want to mention what an incredible accomplishment that is. As a younger engineer, I try to utilize individuals with your type experience as much as I can. I hope they realize how valuable you are. You are facing an extremely difficult decision! A couple of thoughts.

1. Learning a new job can be fun and energizing. Some people need a 'change' in career at certain times to keep interest levels up. Maybe you would like it so much you delay retirement.

2. If you are happy, if stress is good, if family is good, if money is acceptable, that's not a bad thing.

 

[cliffish]

The other thing to consider is if you don't take it, will they go "outside" and hire for that position? Sometimes it is the devil you know (yourself) or the devil you don't know if they go outside for the hire.

I will say adding 2 hours a day to the commute would be a big thing for me, especially for only a 10-15% increase.