Off-Topic tech assistance maybe?

mrblaine

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In 05-06 Jeep switched from the PCI bus to the CAN bus. Along with that, they changed the firing rotation on the engine. PCI is every 120 degrees which puts the CPS over on the left side of the motor, right below where the head bolts onto the block. CAN is every 180 degrees so the CPS is located on the right side just above the starter area.

When you swap an AW-4 into an 05-06 TJ, there is only one current method to make the CPS function. The solution is a CPS relocation kit that moves the sensor to a bracket beside the harmonic balancer and a new balancer is installed with the notches for timing cut into it around the perimeter at the same degrees of rotation and number as they are on the flex plate rim, just miniaturized.
There are 2 problems with that. The first is the notches are not discrete enough even though the surface feet per minute is much slower through the sensor than the much larger notches on the flex plate.
The second problem is the balancer is rubber mounted to the base pulley or it wouldn't function as a harmonic balancer.

The combination of the two issues produces a flickering check engine light at anything over 3800 RPM. When the RPM drops below the threshold, the system relearns and the light quits flickering. There is no air gap adjustment that changes the threshold or how it reacts to the RPM threshold.

So, I'm going to attempt to hack a hole in the bellhousing at the proper 05-06 location, re-drill a 42RLE flex plate to adapt it to the AW-4 torque converter, and then build a bracket that picks up the two bellhousing bolts that will put the 05-06 into the proper alignment to hopefully fire the motor correctly.

What I'm looking for is anyone who is sensor smart who may know of a narrower band sensor that will read the notches in the balancer without blurring them and causing the CEL issue or anyone who has dealt with similar and knows of something I am drastically overlooking.

If the AW-4 converter is too large to fit inside the 42 flex plate rim, I can solve that with a custom converter, I'd rather not.
If a more discrete sensor exists, I'd rather do that first although I don't think it will solve the rubber mount issue.

Anyone??
 
I wish I could be of help but that is above my pay grade. I will, however, forward your post to a friend and fellow jeeper in Utah who is knowledgeable about such things to see if he has any suggestions.
I knew it was a long shot but you never know who could be reading something and have an answer. We've got parts on the way to start mocking up the mess to the back of a motor. Fortunately the AW-4 has a separate bellhousing so we aren't messing with the whole transmission.
 
I certainly don't want to derail the thread, so I apologize in advance. However, what's the reason for wanting to put an AW4 in a 05-06 TJ? Just to get rid of that pesky .69 OD ratio?

Is it really that much of an improvement over the 42RLE? I'm genuinely curious.
 
I certainly don't want to derail the thread, so I apologize in advance. However, what's the reason for wanting to put an AW4 in a 05-06 TJ? Just to get rid of that pesky .69 OD ratio?

Is it really that much of an improvement over the 42RLE? I'm genuinely curious.
It had the 6 speed. It is equally split between the two transmissions, the AW-4 and the 42RLE as to which set of problems you desire.

The AW is inefficient, produces a lot of heat, and has a marginally better .75 OD ratio. It is relatively durable.
The 42 is sloppy, known to have a few issues, produces a lot of heat, and has a crap .69 OD ratio. It is hit and miss on durability.
We can easily build the AW-4 interface harness and make the install look OEM or like it came that way.
We have to locate and acquire the harnesses to do the 42 plus we have to pull the dash and replace that harness. It also requires the auto PCM. The AW-4 can use the original PCM since it has a stand-alone trans controller.

These are traits of both I've learned from doing so many of them and the AW-4 nut huggers always jump down my throat and tell me how wrong I am and how great the AW is. One day I was digging around trying to find a valve body for one and came across this on Novak's site. It took me a few seconds to figure out I didn't actually write it. I giggled.

The AW4 is a light to medium-duty transmission. Ours, our callers', and customers' experiences with the AW4 are less than stellar. They have a tendency to generate excessive amounts of heat, and are known for unnecessarily consuming more engine power than some other automatics. The shift points in the AW4 feel odd, and the spotty engagement of the lockup torque converter is idiosyncratic.


But it is a decent transmission, and if kept cool and maintained it can offer good service within its range.
 
The AW4 is a light to medium-duty transmission. Ours, our callers', and customers' experiences with the AW4 are less than stellar. They have a tendency to generate excessive amounts of heat, and are known for unnecessarily consuming more engine power than some other automatics. The shift points in the AW4 feel odd, and the spotty engagement of the lockup torque converter is idiosyncratic.


But it is a decent transmission, and if kept cool and maintained it can offer good service within its range.

That's funny!

That pretty much echoes my experience having owned a Cherokee XJ (with an AW4) for a number of years. On the Cherokee Forums, people would praise the AW4 as being one of the most stout, reliable, and best transmissions Jeep ever made. Seldom would you ever hear anything bad about it.

I will say however that after living with an XJ for several years, I didn't think the AW4 was all that great. It reminds me a lot of my 42RLE. It still had weird shift points and often times felt like it was "hunting" for gears. In addition, I also felt like it was robbing the engine of power at times (I always thought it was in my head, but you've confirmed it).

Still, I can see why it would be a decent swap for a manual transmission equipped TJ.

One thing I would like to add in regards to putting in a 42RLE in a manual transmission equipped TJ: That HPTuner software I bought for the 05-06 PCMs has the ability to enable or disable manual transmission functionality within the PCM, so you can essentially turn a manual transmission PCM into an automatic PCM on 05-06 models.

After talking with David Kasper at B&G Performance (one of the original TJ engineers for Chrysler), he confirmed this is indeed possible.

I'd reached out to probably 30 different transmission repair shops that specialize in "high performance" rebuilds about whether or not there was anything they could do internally to the 42RLE to make that .69 OD gear less extreme. Every single one of them told me it wasn't possible.

I don't know much about rebuilding transmissions, but I had thought that maybe it was possible to swap in a different OD gear. Apparently all of these shops told me that wasn't the case.

It seems (at least as far as I know) that with the 42RLE, there really isn't anything you can do to make it any better, other than re-gearing.
 
That's funny!

That pretty much echoes my experience having owned a Cherokee XJ (with an AW4) for a number of years. On the Cherokee Forums, people would praise the AW4 as being one of the most stout, reliable, and best transmissions Jeep ever made. Seldom would you ever hear anything bad about it.

I will say however that after living with an XJ for several years, I didn't think the AW4 was all that great. It reminds me a lot of my 42RLE. It still had weird shift points and often times felt like it was "hunting" for gears. In addition, I also felt like it was robbing the engine of power at times (I always thought it was in my head, but you've confirmed it).

Still, I can see why it would be a decent swap for a manual transmission equipped TJ.

One thing I would like to add in regards to putting in a 42RLE in a manual transmission equipped TJ: That HPTuner software I bought for the 05-06 PCMs has the ability to enable or disable manual transmission functionality within the PCM, so you can essentially turn a manual transmission PCM into an automatic PCM on 05-06 models.

After talking with David Kasper at B&G Performance (one of the original TJ engineers for Chrysler), he confirmed this is indeed possible.

I'd reached out to probably 30 different transmission repair shops that specialize in "high performance" rebuilds about whether or not there was anything they could do internally to the 42RLE to make that .69 OD gear less extreme. Every single one of them told me it wasn't possible.

I don't know much about rebuilding transmissions, but I had thought that maybe it was possible to swap in a different OD gear. Apparently all of these shops told me that wasn't the case.

It seems (at least as far as I know) that with the 42RLE, there really isn't anything you can do to make it any better, other than re-gearing.
In stock form, the AW-4 is just about flawless in a stock 99 or was in the one we had. Crisp shifts, no hunting, no excess heat, no perceptible power loss.

I have a Cherokee guru here that owns several. We chat frequently about why the AW-4 works so well in the XJ and just flat falls on its face when you swap it into a TJ or TJ Unlimited.
 
In stock form, the AW-4 is just about flawless in a stock 99 or was in the one we had. Crisp shifts, no hunting, no excess heat, no perceptible power loss.

I have a Cherokee guru here that owns several. We chat frequently about why the AW-4 works so well in the XJ and just flat falls on its face when you swap it into a TJ or TJ Unlimited.

Yes, my XJ wasn't a good example as it had 32" tires and a lift, among other things.

This is all interesting to hear, especially since lately I seem to hear a lot of people talking about swapping out their 42RLE transmissions for AW-4s.
 
It's in the back of my head to swap to an auto some day. I wish there were better options for the late-TJs.
 
Yes, my XJ wasn't a good example as it had 32" tires and a lift, among other things.

This is all interesting to hear, especially since lately I seem to hear a lot of people talking about swapping out their 42RLE transmissions for AW-4s.
I won't do one unless some very specific issues are in place. Inability to get a PCM for the 42. 42 is dead with no replacements to be had. Other than that which are pretty much not possible with a few exceptions, the 42 is staying.

I have put a NV 3550 into an 06 which has the same CPS location issue but Advanced Adapter makes a conversion bellhousing the puts it in the right spot. We still had to do the harness swap, but the trans part was easy.
 
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As soon as we get a confirmed wheel speed sensor solution for the NAG 1, we are going to try one.
I'm reading up on it right now. The NAG1 is a fair amount longer than the 3550, isn't it? The .84 OD sounds nice.
 
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I'm reading up on it right now. The NAG1 is a fair amount longer than the 3550, isn't it? The .84 OD sounds nice.
Not sure on the length yet. The preliminary measurements that some folks took for me that had them laying around didn't indicate that would be a problem.
 
With all the negatives associated with various Jeep automatic transmissions I am starting to think that a better route may be to swap in a GM motor and trans and get rid of the Chrysler stuff altogether.

But that's a subject for another thread.
 
With all the negatives associated with various Jeep automatic transmissions I am starting to think that a better route may be to swap in a GM motor and trans and get rid of the Chrysler stuff altogether.

But that's a subject for another thread.
You're solving a 3000 dollar problem by throwing 15 grand at it.
 
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Not sure on the length yet. The preliminary measurements that some folks took for me that had them laying around didn't indicate that would be a problem.
From Novak...
The NV3550 is 16.7" long and has a cast aluminum case with generous ribbing. With its removable Jeep I6 bellhousing, it measures 23.1".

Measurements on the NAG1/WA580 are hard to find. All I see are what must be shipping dimensions. 24x24x36" and 24x24x48".

It sounds interesting. I hope it works!
 
With all the negatives associated with various Jeep automatic transmissions I am starting to think that a better route may be to swap in a GM motor and trans and get rid of the Chrysler stuff altogether.

But that's a subject for another thread.

You and me both man... you and me both.
 
You and me both man... you and me both.
So, do either of you think that a transmission swap is harder than this?
Just to get the exhaust routed-
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And the associated heat management.
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It wouldn't be hard for me at all. Adding zeros to the number on my check payable to the guy doing the real work is almost effortless. :wink:

But the pain when the bank statement comes at the end of the month might be excruciating. :eek: