They don't change steady state, in other words once you are a second or two into the turn the shocks don't change the total roll at all really.
Okay, you're set on this, I get it.
Ok, time for lets argue about your favorite shocks
- Thread starter Jmac00
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Ok…as said not sure…shock absorbers resistance is governed by the velocity of displacement primarily vs springs being based on total displacement (correct?)…so slower movements should see less resistance from shocks. With that said, I don’t know what they are really tuned for and where the damping becomes significant.
Yeah. I'm set on this because I can demonstrate it by adjusting my shock settings.
So, I don’t know about all the new shock technology, but basic shocks have dampening proportional to the rate of displacement of the shocks…whereas springs provide resistance proportional to displacement. So multiple factors come into play…initially the shock might provide the most resistance, and the faster you shift the body weight (take the turn) the more resistance the shock is going to give. As you go around the curve and start to roll more, the resistance from the spring becomes greater. Without knowing the tune for each system (and every system is going to be different), I can’t really say where and to what proportion each component plays.
I feel I have a lot more body roll with my current springs than with others, so I feel the springs are providing most of the resistance, but…thinking about it…I’m also not sure when I changed my shocks last or if I’ve blown any…so I could be wrong!
Good to know and gets back to the question I was asking originally, should I get adjustable shocks…is there enough difference to make them worth setting one way for off-road and another for on road? I tend to do several hundred mile trips in my TJ and then off-road with it…so, what’s the best set up, a single setting shock, or multiple setting shock…and then do I set for soft or stiff for best on/off road performance? I apologize if this has been answered in previous thread.
Maybe in a vacuum, but in the real world they are active throughout. The front and rear wheels don't travel the same arch, steering may shift, road texture, acceleration, pitch, ...
Predictably handling shocks make a pretty big difference to how a rig performs throughout. You might have to experience it to understand it though.
Ignore what you think the springs are doing, because they aren't doing that.
The shock valving controls how the shock piston moves through the oil in the shock body. Different kinds of valving can have very dramatic effects on small and large events, fast and slow events.
I can change my rears right now to be fairly soft and cushy, noticable roll around corners, and lots of movement on uneven surfaces; all the way to feeling almost every crack in the road, and staying nearly flat in the corners.
Mine also have a small flutter stack to help soak up the small event stuff without creating too much roll. I am aware of others with too wide of a flutter that allows for too much movement.
I know nothing about how off the shelf adjustables perform. All I am going to tell you is that shocks matter and they matter a lot. And anyone who says otherwise has never had the experience of a shock transforming the very character of a vehicle to where they become a significant portion of what the suspension is built around.
Not sure what you mean by first statement, but in the case of body roll, we can imagine two scenarios, a solid bar for springs (k = infinity) and virtually no spring (k = 0). In the first case, there would be no body roll at all, and the shock would be irrelevant. In the second case, the harder you take the corner you have competition between the force of the body on the shock and the amount of dampening from the shock.
The rest of what you said I totally agree with, and this is a complex system where both components play, and the weight of each is dependent on their parameters.
I'm not doing the spring thing again. They aren't contributing to more or less body roll beyond what they do to create the ride height. Do yourself a favor and remove the shocks and go for a drive to see what the springs really to do control any movement.
Favorite and best are very subjective. $$$ tend to play into that on both sides. Sometimes when you spend more $$$, you convince yourself something is better, other times you decide they can not be worth the $$$ so economical is best. As such I have seen Rancho called best and I have seen Fox 2.0 RR with DSC called best. Sadly it is not cheep to experiment.
Those who might say that also know Fox 2.0 RR with DSC can be tuned into the worse thing you can imagine.
When talking about roll the shocks don't limit the roll after about a second. You can flap your jaw until you are blue in the face but the fact is that is as certain as springs setting the ride height. Once the turn is set roll is determined by the sway bars and the springs just like the Jeep is sitting on flat ground and has nothing to do with the shocks. I said clearly that quick actions are controlled by the shocks, slow set turns are not.
Ya, the shocks hold the Jeep in a turn. Makes sense to me considering they are fluid dampers. You haven't thought it out or just don't understand.
What are you even talking about, shocks don't change how much your Jeep leans getting on the freeway. Give this stupid shit up.
That doesn't answer my question and in fact you're now trying to change it entirely. Most of us know which one of us is being stupid, but at least you finally learned to quote.
This is simply incorrect.
You really need to find someone with a set of properly tuned shocks and test out all your theories. I say this not to irritate you, but to really make you understand just how much shocks do. There is nothing like first hand experience. I say this because I was like you till sometime last year. I had some ideas, somewhat different than you, but they were just that, ideas. I did realize there was a different side to things, when someone like Blaine comes in and says shocks are the most important things he builds around.
I really tried to understand why Blaine and @jjvw and others say the things they do. People aren't doing this just as a philosophical stance, there is an absolute reality to what is being said on these shock threads by those that understand. I first hand know how a bad tune can ruin a RR Fox 2.0 and I can say that with the utmost confidence. Trying to ascertain the "why" of my poorly performing 2.0s led me towards understanding what shocks can and can't do.
I have mentioned this before, but my eyes were really opened once I sat in a Jeep with good shocks, and then some more after I got my shocks tuned and actually working. Shocks control the ride and quality of the ride more than you currently think.
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