Opinions on self defense shotgun shells

[Kyle_W]

The little research that i've done has shown that #00 Buckshot produces the most devastation, however, it has less pellets and has a high propensity for effective penetration.

But, #1 Buckshot seems to be better for self defense than #00 Buckshot: it has twice as many pellets, still will easily kill a belligerent, but won't go through as much (i.e. drywall or wood in your home).

I was curious as to ya'll's thoughts? Anything below #1 is kind of out of the question. Since at this point, #00 or #1 are clearly the better options.

 

[RaymondT]

Why would you think that? I shot a medium sized MD buck at 25yds with #3 Buck out of my Browning BPS 20ga with a full choke. I aimed for the neck on a sideways shot and got about 4" of penetration on 6 BB's. Folded like a bad poker hand. I would think a frail human would be swiss cheese. Heavier shot is less BB's and more potential for collateral damage.

 

[Kyle_W]

Why would you think that? I shot a medium sized MD buck at 25yds with #3 Buck out of my Browning BPS 20ga with a full choke. I aimed for the neck on a sideways shot and got about 4" of penetration on 6 BB's. Folded like a bad poker hand. I would think a frail human would be swiss cheese. Heavier shot is less BB's and more potential for collateral damage.[/QUOTE]

So you think that maybe down to #4 buckshot is still extremely deadly?

This is why I asked, I wanted to see if I was missing anything! Just seeing that Police very much like #00 buckshot, that was where my starting point was.

 

[mrblaine]

The little research that i've done has shown that #00 Buckshot produces the most devastation, however, it has less pellets and has a high propensity for effective penetration.

But, #1 Buckshot seems to be better for self defense than #00 Buckshot: it has twice as many pellets, still will easily kill a belligerent, but won't go through as much (i.e. drywall or wood in your home).

I was curious as to ya'll's thoughts? Anything below #1 is kind of out of the question. Since at this point, #00 or #1 are clearly the better options.

What distances are you figuring on using the load at?

It would be rare for any distance inside a home to be long enough for the pattern to open with most loads. If the spread isn't very large, then any 3 dram equivalent or higher 2 3/4" shell with 1 1/4 oz of any size shot will have roughly the same effectiveness.

I used to take clay pigeon target loads, slice the shell right above the power charge and shoot 4x4 fence posts at the gun range to show folks that at 20 feet, any shell can be devastating. The blown in half post usually convinced them.

 

[Kyle_W]

5 to 15 yards. I am trying to decide a good shell to stick with that I know will scatter decently, but still have enough incapacitation force on a foe.

What do you mean by slicing the shell right above the powder charge? Wouldn't you be cutting off all of the shot if you did that?

 

[Head Lice]

Is this for defence from humans or dangerous game ?
Slugs are devastating on close-in Ursus ......

 

[mrblaine]

5 to 15 yards. I am trying to decide a good shell to stick with that I know will scatter decently, but still have enough incapacitation force on a foe.

What do you mean by slicing the shell right above the powder charge? Wouldn't you be cutting off all of the shot if you did that?

Poor man's slug or emergency slug when all you have is bird shot and you need bear shot.

 

[Kyle_W]

Oh wow, I have never seen such a concept.

But @Head Lice this is for defense against humans - slugs just penetrate too much, and also have no spread on them, of course.

 

[Serbonze]

For a different perspective, my opinion would be to switch your HD weapon to a pistol. Less over-penetration (very important if you have roommates, kids, or pets), more available rounds with faster reloads, better manuverability through close quarters such as hallways and corners, and the ability to use one handed (moving spouse/kids/pets or opening/closing doors) while still having full control of the weapon.

 

[Kyle_W]

For a different perspective, my opinion would be to switch your HD weapon to a pistol. Less over-penetration (very important if you have roommates, kids, or pets), more available rounds with faster reloads, better manuverability through close quarters such as hallways and corners, and the ability to use one handed (moving spouse/kids/pets or opening/closing doors) while still having full control of the weapon.

Very good point...

I already am looking at either a Glock 30S (.45), or a Glock 21 (9mm). Either way I go, I wasn't gonna think too hard about it and just buy hollow point ammo for it. Or, does getting +P ammo really make a difference enough to warrant purchasing it?

 

[Serbonze]

Very good point...

I already am looking at either a Glock 30S (.45), or a Glock 21 (9mm). Either way I go, I wasn't gonna think too hard about it and just buy hollow point ammo for it. Or, does getting +P ammo really make a difference enough to warrant purchasing it?

A Glock 21 is .45, so you want a Glock 19 or 17 for HD use. I would suggest a 9mm over .45. You get more rounds, less recoil, and virtually the exact same ballistics with modern 9mm self defense ammunition.

If you think you may carry it, then the 19 will serve both purposes very well. Ammunition selection is a completely different topic and can get pretty specific, but an easy answer is no, don't over think the higher pressure ammo.

Of course, a weapon mounted light should also be on your radar.

 

[mrblaine]

Very good point...

I already am looking at either a Glock 30S (.45), or a Glock 21 (9mm). Either way I go, I wasn't gonna think too hard about it and just buy hollow point ammo for it. Or, does getting +P ammo really make a difference enough to warrant purchasing it?

At the end of the day, if you whip out any firearm and start firing at an intruder inside your home, it pretty much doesn't matter what you are shooting. The circumstances that bring about that situation are so rare as to almost not plan for them other than to have something that fires projectiles.

I have a fairly unusual view of home self defense based on how and where I grew up. Essentially if someone has evil intentions and has decided that you need to be eliminated, you won't know about it until it is too late. It is the height of absurdity to try and take someone out in their home on unfamiliar ground. It makes far more sense to get them in a drive by where you can see the target, get them during ingress and egress from the home or take them out from a long distance. None of those are as dumb as stumbling around in the dark trying to be quiet enough to sneak up on someone in unfamiliar surroundings and win that battle.

After that, the rest is simply mental masturbation to justify owning a specific weapon for a specific task that has very low to almost nil chances of ever coming to fruition. You have better chances of winning the lottery twice than you do of having come crack head stumble into your bedroom and try to shoot you in your sleep.

If you are trying to prevent a home invasion, by the time most figure out what is happening, they are already compromised and under dire threat.

 

[Kyle_W]

@Serbonze and @mrblaine,

Y'all freaking made me laugh with your descriptions of those scenarios.

But yes that's my mistake, a 30S and a Glock 19 Compact were my considerations. I also am on the fence of which caliber to shoot. A .45 is simply a .45. It's like a 12ga vs a 20ga in my opinion.

I've always thought that if you only got one shot off at a belligerent, I'd rather be using a .45. However, with the propensity to miss by using a pistol, maybe a 9mm is the way to go (due to the easier shooting and more rounds in a mag)?

I was thinking that night sights would be better than a flashlight. Seeing as a flashlight easily gives away your position. Thoughts?

 

[Serbonze]

@Serbonze and @mrblaine,

Y'all freaking made me laugh with your descriptions of those scenarios.

But yes that's my mistake, a 30S and a Glock 19 Compact were my considerations. I also am on the fence of which caliber to shoot. A .45 is simply a .45. It's like a 12ga vs a 20ga in my opinion.

I've always thought that if you only got one shot off at a belligerent, I'd rather be using a .45. However, with the propensity to miss by using a pistol, maybe a 9mm is the way to go (due to the easier shooting and more rounds in a mag)?

I was thinking that night sights would be better than a flashlight. Seeing as a flashlight easily gives away your position. Thoughts?

With modern ballistics there is virtually no benefit to using a .45 over 9mm and there will be a propensity to miss with just about any firearm that you discharge in your home, even a shotgun. Threats rarely stand still like a paper target at the range.

Personally, I have fiber optic fronts and blacked out rear sights on my pistols along with a light. The fiber optic catches any little bit of light. But truth be told, unless you have hours upon hours of training, if it comes down to it you won't be concentrating on getting a good sight picture. You are going to be point shooting.

A weapon mounted light can be used for searching, identifying, or disorienting a threat. I certainly wouldn't stroll around the house with it on. There are many classes offered on the proper use of a hand held or weapon mounted light.

 

[RaymondT]

At the end of the day, if you whip out any firearm and start firing at an intruder inside your home, it pretty much doesn't matter what you are shooting. The circumstances that bring about that situation are so rare as to almost not plan for them other than to have something that fires projectiles.

I have a fairly unusual view of home self defense based on how and where I grew up. Essentially if someone has evil intentions and has decided that you need to be eliminated, you won't know about it until it is too late. It is the height of absurdity to try and take someone out in their home on unfamiliar ground. It makes far more sense to get them in a drive by where you can see the target, get them during ingress and egress from the home or take them out from a long distance. None of those are as dumb as stumbling around in the dark trying to be quiet enough to sneak up on someone in unfamiliar surroundings and win that battle.

After that, the rest is simply mental masturbation to justify owning a specific weapon for a specific task that has very low to almost nil chances of ever coming to fruition. You have better chances of winning the lottery twice than you do of having come crack head stumble into your bedroom and try to shoot you in your sleep.

If you are trying to prevent a home invasion, by the time most figure out what is happening, they are already compromised and under dire threat.

Gotta agree. A good sized can of bear spray is probably a safer bet for inside a house.

 

[Kyle_W]

Thank ya'll! Very good points.

Is the ".45 is better than 9mm" argument toted by the guys who try anything to make themselves feel better? That's what it seems like.

 

[StG58]

Do some research on home defense scenarios. The one's that have actually happened. Plan accordingly.

You may not like yourself very much after you have done all the mental, emotional and physical training required to defend your home. Have a Lawyer picked out who specializes in the defensive use of firearms. Have a Clergyman selected that will help you with your head afterwards. Have money set aside for your legal defense and to cover lost wages and etc. Be prepared for the scrutiny of the community and the social changes that occur afterwards.

Ammunition selection is the least of your worries.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

The reason I went for the .45 on my last pistol purchase is pretty simple... it's been a good solid performer for more years than any of us here have been alive. .45 ammo is also cheap and available anywhere.

 

[Chris]

The reason I went for the .45 on my last pistol purchase is pretty simple... it's been a good solid performer for more years than any of us here have been alive. .45 ammo is also cheap and available anywhere.

I don't blame you. .45 is tried and tested. My 1911 is .45, but then again, aren't all 1911s?

Not to say I wouldn't own a 9mm (I would), it's just that most of the guns I like happen to be .45.

 

[StG58]

2-3/4" loads. #4 buckshot and slugs. Alternate starting with the #4's. Five rounds in a side saddle, three #4's and two slugs. Reload as you consume your ammo according to the threat perceived. The first round out of the tube is a slug, then a buckshot round, then a slug etc. Pattern your shotgun to you know for sure what you are dealing with. Practice aiming, and hitting a target from all positions and all light conditions. Learn how to hold and cycle your shotgun so that it always cycles and doesn't jam.