Pennsylvania Petition to allow Doorless driving in PA

[Westtown Willy]

we need a few hundred more signatures on this petition, anyone living in PA floating around here please pop it open & sign, thanks

https://www.change.org/p/kurt-masse...76-allow-doorless-jeeps-on-pennsylvania-roads

To anyone else reading this, the PA Code allows the Police to cite you for driving without the doors. That said, there are doorless Jeeps all over the place here & I've never seen one getting pulled over & cited for it however it does happen from time to time so it's best that this odd statute be eliminated so that there's no longer any concern.

 

[Chris]

I've heard about this. What a stupid law. I drive around with my doors off all the time (though it's legal in Oregon) and I always think about how crappy it would be to not be able to take them off.

I wonder if I can sign it since I live out of state?

 

[Westtown Willy]

I've heard about this. What a stupid law. I drive around with my doors off all the time (though it's legal in Oregon) and I always think about how crappy it would be to not be able to take them off.

I wonder if I can sign it since I live out of state?

I agree, but like I said there are doorless Jeeps everywhere weather permitting. In fact I had never heard of the law prior to picking up my Jeep (at 50) & it never crossed my mind it was illegal based upon the volume of doorless Jeeps rolling around, but there are some trouble spots I've heard of where they'll ticket you so it's gotta go...

And, what's even more stupid is that we repealed our helmet law years ago so I can jump on a rice rocket sans helmet & haul ass down the road & that's ok but I'm supposed to have doors on my TJ for safety

I was a Harley guy in a former life when the push to repeal the helmet law was a big thing so I know these sort of efforts can pay off, hoping this thing goes the same way. It's my understanding that our Governor is a Wrangler guy so I'm hoping he'll sign that puppy into law if it hits his desk

 

[Chris]

I agree, but like I said there are doorless Jeeps everywhere weather permitting. In fact I had never heard of the law prior to picking up my Jeep (at 50) & it never crossed my mind it was illegal based upon the volume of doorless Jeeps rolling around, but there are some trouble spots I've heard of where they'll ticket you so it's gotta go...

And, what's even more stupid is that we repealed our helmet law years ago so I can jump on a rice rocket sans helmet & haul ass down the road & that's ok but I'm supposed to have doors on my TJ for safety

I was a Harley guy in a former life when the push to repeal the helmet law was a big thing so I know these sort of efforts can pay off, hoping this thing goes the same way. It's my understanding that our Governor is a Wrangler guy so I'm hoping he'll sign that puppy into law if it hits his desk

The governor is a Wrangler guy? That's cool!

However, I'm not sure that the governor can just repeal a law like this, or can they?

 

[Westtown Willy]

The governor is a Wrangler guy? That's cool!

However, I'm not sure that the governor can just repeal a law like this, or can they?

no, it has to go through the normal legislative process, the petition is just a mechanism to try & prompt them to reintroduce the legislation to eliminate that code section.

PA is a strange state, our version of the second amendment is far better (non-ambiguous) than the actual 2nd, it reads “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.” If only the actual 2nd Amendment was worded like that it would certainly shut all the chuckle-heads up on that issue, their only option then would be an amendment repealing the second; instead I believe it's just a matter of time before the Supreme Court swings far enough left that they'll be able to reinterpret it out of existence (see the dissent in Heller). Likewise with the helmet law... we seem to be inconsistent in our thinking, but I imagine all states contradict themselves one way or another. I have to believe there was some 'rational' reason they added the door law to the code that made sense at the time it was written, perhaps safety driven, but from my perspective that's precisely the kind of government intervention/dictate that is not necessary, we're adults, treat us as such

 

[Chris]

no, it has to go through the normal legislative process, the petition is just a mechanism to try & prompt them to reintroduce the legislation to eliminate that code section.

PA is a strange state, our version of the second amendment is far better (non-ambiguous) than the actual 2nd, it reads “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.” If only the actual 2nd Amendment was worded like that it would certainly shut all the chuckle-heads up on that issue, their only option then would be an amendment repealing the second; instead I believe it's just a matter of time before the Supreme Court swings far enough left that they'll be able to reinterpret it out of existence (see the dissent in Heller). Likewise with the helmet law... we seem to be inconsistent in our thinking, but I imagine all states contradict themselves one way or another. I have to believe there was some 'rational' reason they added the door law to the code that made sense at the time it was written, perhaps safety driven, but from my perspective that's precisely the kind of government intervention/dictate that is not necessary, we're adults, treat us as such

I think we can all agree that we don't need the government butting into things like this and telling us what we can and can't do. For instance, requiring doors. That shouldn't be something that the government has any control over whatsoever.

 

[Drizit]

British Columbia has a similar law, apparently there, if the vehicle shipped with doors you have to have em. So the only jeeps you can run door less are CJs and older as doors were an option when you bought them not standard equipment.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Westtown Willy]

I think we can all agree that we don't need the government butting into things like this and telling us what we can and can't do. For instance, requiring doors. That shouldn't be something that the government has any control over whatsoever.

as a devout Libertarian you are preaching to the choir


Edit: and by the way I wish we could all agree on that, problem is that liberals have their own pet individual rights which they covet, for example the right to choose re: abortion, yet they refuse to extend that same courtesy to conservatives that covet, for example, the right to bear arms; each party abhors the chosen individual rights of the other while failing to recognize their own hypocrisy. In my view they're all wrong, all individual freedoms should be coveted and protected by all people whether we like them or not because when you take the opposite approach & destroy freedoms you don't like you have to understand that one day when the opposition takes control back the worm will turn & they'll come for your rights

 

[ZildjianDevil]

did the petition get passed? I just came across this thread as I live in Pa and wanted to sign. I just recently purchased my TJ and the state laws are a joke.

 

[Westtown Willy]

did the petition get passed? I just came across this thread as I live in Pa and wanted to sign. I just recently purchased my TJ and the state laws are a joke.

the petition did hit it's intended number of signatures but it was not a referendum, merely a statement to the legislature that a significant amount of citizens want them to pass legislation amending that section of the motor vehicle code. I'm not sure where it stands at this point. You're not that far from me, I'm sure you've noticed no shortage of doorless Jeeps driving around, I see them daily notwithstanding the law. It's selectively enforced & from what I've seen, rarely.

On another subject, will you be taking your TJ off road? I'm heading to the mountains tomorrow if you're interested in joining the group

 

[ZildjianDevil]

the petition did hit it's intended number of signatures but it was not a referendum, merely a statement to the legislature that a significant amount of citizens want them to pass legislation amending that section of the motor vehicle code. I'm not sure where it stands at this point. You're not that far from me, I'm sure you've noticed no shortage of doorless Jeeps driving around, I see them daily notwithstanding the law. It's selectively enforced & from what I've seen, rarely.

On another subject, will you be taking your TJ off road? I'm heading to the mountains tomorrow if you're interested in joining the group

ah, that’s a bummer. thank you for the invite with the group! I won’t be around this weekend but def plan on doing some wheeling after I get a few upgrades under my belt. Thanks again for the reply and mountains invite!

 

[Westtown Willy]

ah, that’s a bummer. thank you for the invite with the group! I won’t be around this weekend but def plan on doing some wheeling after I get a few upgrades under my belt. Thanks again for the reply and mountains invite!

No problem, check on the Rausch Creek Rides thread, I post the dates there which basically is every other Saturday. I'm not sure what if any history you have with going off road but in the event you have not done it consider taking your TJ up there as it sits; you might be very surprised how capable a stock TJ is. Knowing its capability now may weigh in somewhat on your future build.