And sometimes you either need a brain or 40's..... I needed a brain
And sometimes you either need a brain or 40's..... I needed a brain
It's been said that there's a fine line between being Brave and Dumb.
My adventures usually end up on the Dumb side.
And sometimes you either need a brain or 40's..... I needed a brain
I know a guy who could help you out.
p.s. He ran 40s on a stock Dana 35.
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Fair point. We don't really have those problems out here in Connecticut hahaha.
Why are you hating on Toto?????
From the objective technical side of things, the main reason you get in trouble is the tire diameter runs into the frame and most control arms sooner than a 35 does which limits how far you can turn the tires. The obvious answer is simply wheel spacers to move the tires out, or shallower back spaced wheels to move them out. Now you're working the ball joints much harder and they don't live as long because the leverage against them is higher. Them that don't know better will sling the ball joint deletes answer at you to solve that problem but they don't tell you how to reinforce the steel around the hole in the upper and that tends to be more delicate than it could be for higher loads on the inner C.
I don't have a ton of experience with snow rigs but I'd venture a pretty solid guess that they are not as tough on axles as a mud rig. You said you wanted to wheel hard, is that because you struggle in the snow or there are other types of wheeling involved?
In our world, cutting and fitting larger tires than is prudent like a 37 typically downgrades performance in most of the technical stuff if you don't balance out the wheelbase longer. That is mainly due to the distance between the front and rear tires at the midline is now shorter, so in places, you've effectively shortened the wheelbase.
I've broken plenty of stuff snow wheeling. Mostly when I got stuck. If you're set up with clearance and tires and the right "stuff" it's magical.
And if you're not set up it's pure misery.
And then it snows more and what worked last week in wet snow doesn't work in dry snow.
-Mac
And if you're not set up it's pure misery.
And then it snows more and what worked last week in wet snow doesn't work in dry snow.
-Mac
Where I grew up in CT, the potholes in the roads were deeper than any snow they get in WA.
p.s. I drove my Jeep for 7 hours straight in 3' of untouched snow (blizzard) here in Va. My biggest issue was the @$$holes that tried to drive their BMW's in it and got stuck every 30', then left their cars for me to dodge at 2am.
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Just to add a disclaimer about what I posted above, I also know nothing about snow wheeling…
…or snow in general
I have 37's on mine w/ stock wheelbase, here's how it breaks down, honestly, the amount of money I spent to get 37's on my rig was not worth it b/c it's still not done right, several thousands to go to get it right, bottom line, I don’t recommend 37's on a stockish TJ
- How are you planning to reinforce your axles for the large amount of leverage on the drivetrain and housing? Your wheel bearings and ball joints will be heavily stressed, as well as the axle shafts. - Currie axles, mistake up front as I will go thru ball joints (I didn’t do my homework up front)
- How are you planning to regain braking capability after adding so much leverage against the brakes? - stock up front, basically stock in the rear, not ideal, but it stops, trail rig mainly, rarely on the street.
- How are you planning to retain a reasonable amount of suspension travel? It will either be lots of lift or lots of cutting, or a combination. - 5" lift, 1.25 BL, cutting, still rubs, need highlines and lower back to 4" springs.
- How are you planning to keep the tires clear of the sway bar, body, and suspension? Wheel spacers? If so, revisit the first bullet. - No issue w/ this, only rubs on fender. Antirock as well
- How are you planning to regain drivability after adding so much leverage against the drivetrain? 5.38 regear? Is that deep enough for your specific transmission? 5.38 gears, could be lower
- How are you planning to carry a 37” spare? it’s in the tub, no rear seat.
- [edit to add] How are you planning on beefing up your steering components to handle the larger forces of 37s? A stock steering gear will struggle to turn 37s offroad. Currie currectlync? Hydro assist? - currectlync & steering box brace, no issues steering.
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I ran TSL SX 38x12.5x16.5 tires on recentered Hummv rims on my TJ with a small stretch in WB. But I have a Ford HP44 front axle & a TeraLow CRD60 rear axle. Steering is PSC with hydro-assist. Brakes are a hydo-boost system. 1.25" body lift & 4-6" suspension lift.
I've now stretched the WB to 100" & have a Savvy midarm suspension. Still running the same axles but had to add wheel spacers for the new rims & tires. I have M/T Baja Pro XS 38x13.5x17 on Spyder Lock 9 x17 wheels with 3.5" bs & 1.25" spacers. It isn't perfect and I am just finishing it up so I haven't had it out on any trails yet. My axles are close to stock width which is why I needed the spacers.
I have air springs in place of the coil springs so my height is adjustable.
I've got 5.13 gears in my axles and ARB's But I've also got a V-8. I had a Dodge Magnum 5.2 before and now a 5.7 Hemi. Both engines with automatic transmissions.
The point here is that it isn't cheap to try and run larger tires. I've got to build new axles that are 65" WMS wide to run the tires I have now. I've also got a set of 36x13.5x16.5 IROCK's on dual beadlock rims for snow runs.
I've now stretched the WB to 100" & have a Savvy midarm suspension. Still running the same axles but had to add wheel spacers for the new rims & tires. I have M/T Baja Pro XS 38x13.5x17 on Spyder Lock 9 x17 wheels with 3.5" bs & 1.25" spacers. It isn't perfect and I am just finishing it up so I haven't had it out on any trails yet. My axles are close to stock width which is why I needed the spacers.
I have air springs in place of the coil springs so my height is adjustable.
I've got 5.13 gears in my axles and ARB's But I've also got a V-8. I had a Dodge Magnum 5.2 before and now a 5.7 Hemi. Both engines with automatic transmissions.
The point here is that it isn't cheap to try and run larger tires. I've got to build new axles that are 65" WMS wide to run the tires I have now. I've also got a set of 36x13.5x16.5 IROCK's on dual beadlock rims for snow runs.
What is everyone's opinions on running a 37 that weighs less than a 35?
I'm planning on running 35x12.50xR17 Nitto Trail Grapplers that measure 34.8 inches and are 79.9 pounds according to Tiresize.com. I've read all the threads saying how stupid it is to run 37s and I'm taking that advice.
However a set of 37x12.50xR17 BFG KM3s measure 36.5 and weigh 77.4 pounds which has me thinking maybe i can get away with running a tire that's 1.7 inches taller but 2 1/2 pounds lighter. am i dumb for considering this?
I'm planning on running 35x12.50xR17 Nitto Trail Grapplers that measure 34.8 inches and are 79.9 pounds according to Tiresize.com. I've read all the threads saying how stupid it is to run 37s and I'm taking that advice.
However a set of 37x12.50xR17 BFG KM3s measure 36.5 and weigh 77.4 pounds which has me thinking maybe i can get away with running a tire that's 1.7 inches taller but 2 1/2 pounds lighter. am i dumb for considering this?
With all the mentions of leverage being one of the notable issues with 37s on stock axles, how does a lighter weight tire reduce leverage?
Those 1.7 inches would push it over the limit then?
Not trying to be a smart ass or anything just a noob who’s curious.
1.7” taller AND 1.7” more front and back (split of course). How are you going to accommodate that? More lift, cutting, HiLine?
How are you going to keep them off the control arms and perches where it’s drivable?
It’s not just weight that matters.
When it is the physical size of the tire creating enough compromises to the foundational build in order to make it fit and perform with some amount of adequacy, the problems being discussed are not about a tire being 2.5lbs too heavy.
This is a case where you possibly could get away with it. Snow and mud rigs often get away with much bigger tires than rock crawlers do.
The "no bigger than 35s" rule-of-thumb is based on high-traction driving. Torque is why big tires break shit, and torque = lever arm x force. Everyone focuses on the lever arm because that's easy to define, and we have no practical way to measure force at the tread. You could run 40s on a skating rink just fine as there's very little traction.
That said, most of my wheeling is in deep snow. 35x12.5s do quite well aired down. Lowest I've run is 3psi front 2 psi rear. I'm routinely cutting trails as very few local rigs are as capable. My tj on 35s will crawl circles around a JKU on 37s in deep snow. I also have a set of chains and they are awesome when the snow gets really hard and slick.
But of course I'm looking for more. At this point I want to go wider for floatation without increasing the chance of breakage too much. I'd LOVE to get my hands on some 35x15.5r15 TSLs but they aren't in the budget right now ($690 each).
We tend to see snow and mud wheeling as needing some wheel speed to get through. In the mud, that kills stuff when traction suddenly appears and the shock load is just miserable. That is why we see a lot of rigs back east on 35's kill a high pinion 30 whereas we have no issues with them for the most part. Even the low pinion Rubi 44 fronts do better with shock loads like that than the HP 30 does. That however, is a distillation of lots of posts I've seen over the years and we might need to mitigate some of that with shit gear installs.
I once watched a well known shop owner who set up lots of gears including his wife's YJ HP 30 front do a little dance with the truth. When they blew the front ARB in half, he blamed the "high" traction of the 35" DOT Krawlers. Uh, no, how 'bout you did a shit job of setting up the gears in that one?
Shock loads and driving style are huge variables for sure.
I haven't found excess wheel speed to be all that helpful in snow. Might not be in the right kind of snow.
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