Poison Spyder Fully Welded Cage

If I were to build a cage from scratch I would not use the plate cage stanchions, I would go through the dash with a piece of tube and right to the floor. Then tie the A and B pillar to the frame in some way.
Just for clarification, not defending the use of plate steel stanchions. Also, I really want to know what the best setup is for our Jeeps? If the PSC cage is an unsafe design, what is best way to design or build a cage to get the best protection and piece of mind on the trails? Do we stick with the factory setup, that has all the R&D from Chrysler, or beef it up? If we choose to beef it up, what is the best path forward?

Now that we know what the wrong answer is, what is the right answer for the weekend wheeler?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RINC
Cage looks good. I have the poison spyder also. If you want the 03 and up speaker pods to work get a heat gun. The only thing I don't like about it is the bar that goes across behind the rear seat. I'm 6ft and I let my daughter drive through a rough trail and all I did was bounce my head off that bar.

I thought about using my heat gun. just seemed like a lot of boxy plastic to heat up and try and reshape. I may try someday though.
 
Just for clarification, not defending the use of plate steel stanchions. Also, I really want to know what the best setup is for our Jeeps? If the PSC cage is an unsafe design, what is best way to design or build a cage to get the best protection and piece of mind on the trails? Do we stick with the factory setup, that has all the R&D from Chrysler, or beef it up? If we choose to beef it up, what is the best path forward?

Now that we know what the wrong answer is, what is the right answer for the weekend wheeler?

It’s not that it’s an unsafe design. It’s that there are better ways to do it than how PSC designed their stanchions. I’ve seen several people roll with a PSC cage and nobody’s leg was stabbed by the stanchion like people on here love to claim. It’s better than the stock roll bar, but not as good as dom tubing through the dash. For most weekend warrior, they are plenty sufficient.
 
It’s not that it’s an unsafe design. It’s that there are better ways to do it than how PSC designed their stanchions. I’ve seen several people roll with a PSC cage and nobody’s leg was stabbed by the stanchion like people on here love to claim. It’s better than the stock roll bar, but not as good as dom tubing through the dash. For most weekend warrior, they are plenty sufficient.

Plenty sufficient for what, though?
 
Plenty sufficient for what, though?

Minor flops or rolls that I’ve seen them withstand. Do I know every possible scenario someone could find themselves in? Absolutely not. Would I rather have a psc cage than the stock one? You bet. Would I rather use tmr or motobilt stanchions instead of psc? Also yes. Is dom tubing better than both of those? Sure is.
 
Minor flops or rolls that I’ve seen them withstand. Do I know every possible scenario someone could find themselves in? Absolutely not. Would I rather have a psc cage than the stock one? You bet. Would I rather use tmr or motobilt stanchions instead of psc? Also yes. Is dom tubing better than both of those? Sure is.


Minor flops that the factory setup doesn't already account for? You are falling into the trap of something is better than nothing. We aren't starting from nothing. And many forget that the windshield is already structural. And many fail to notice where we are sitting relative to the B pillar hoop.

So, what are these cages really giving us beyond a false sense of safety when the need for a real cage and restraint system presents itself and we still don't have that?
 
Minor flops that the factory setup doesn't already account for? You are falling into the trap of something is better than nothing. We aren't starting from nothing. And many forget that the windshield is already structural. And many fail to notice where we are sitting relative to the B pillar hoop.

So, what are these cages really giving us beyond a false sense of safety when the need for a real cage and restraint system presents itself and we still don't have that?

I’m not going to argue with you about this. You have your mind made up. If you don’t think this gives more protection than the stock cage then don’t use it.
 
I’m not going to argue with you about this. You have your mind made up. If you don’t think this gives more protection than the stock cage then don’t use it.

This is little different than a long arm discussion. It is what it is, regardless of what you try to ignore or don't understand. The difference here is that people are very rarely building in long arms in an attempt to keep them safe. A little bit of criticallity is hardly a bad thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats and Chris
I've always looked at it this way: In a roll, the B-Pillar bar protects the driver, but the A-pillar bar protects the windshield. If the A bar can help protect the windshield from colapsing during a roll, it makes it easier to drive away - depending on the severtity of course.

Kind of the same thing with a grill hoop - it does nothing for the driver, but protects the radiator in a roll making it more likely that you can drive away.
 
I've always looked at it this way: In a roll, the B-Pillar bar protects the driver, but the A-pillar bar protects the windshield. If the A bar can help protect the windshield from colapsing during a roll, it makes it easier to drive away - depending on the severtity of course.

Kind of the same thing with a grill hoop - it does nothing for the driver, but protects the radiator in a roll making it more likely that you can drive away.

With both the factory setup and these cages, the windshield either survives or it doesn't. It the windshield and frame needs to be replaced, do you really care how much it was destroyed?
 
This is little different than a long arm discussion. It is what it is, regardless of what you try to ignore or don't understand. The difference here is that people are very rarely building in long arms in an attempt to keep them safe. A little bit of criticallity is hardly a bad thing.

I’m not here to play the game of whataboutism that you and Blaine love to do. From what I’ve personally seen, these cages hold up well. Your mileage may vary. On another note, have you even seen how terrible the stock roll bar is put together? I would much rather have some DOM tubing than that.
 
  • Haha
  • Face Palm
Reactions: psrivats and jjvw
I've always looked at it this way: In a roll, the B-Pillar bar protects the driver, but the A-pillar bar protects the windshield. If the A bar can help protect the windshield from colapsing during a roll, it makes it easier to drive away - depending on the severtity of course.

Kind of the same thing with a grill hoop - it does nothing for the driver, but protects the radiator in a roll making it more likely that you can drive away.

Attempting to protect the rig from damage in a life threatening roll is a fool's errand. That and grill hoops of the sort that most install are only moderately successful at protecting the radiator in a very narrow range of impacts. Any type of impact that pushes rearward at the front face of the hoop at the top is wholly dependent on the bend resistance of 1.5" .120 wall tube across a wide span with little to no bracing. Think of a back flip and the hoop hitting first, it will lose that battle with a quickness.

You can break down the protections relegated to each piece if you like, that won't change that the entire system has to function as such and like the chain analogy we are all familiar it, it will only be as strong as the weakest link.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats and Chris
I’m not here to play the game of whataboutism that you and Blaine love to do. From what I’ve personally seen, these cages hold up well. Your mileage may vary. On another note, have you even seen how terrible the stock roll bar is put together? I would much rather have some DOM tubing than that.

My Jeep on 31s keeps up with the guys on 40s! That is true until it isn't.
 
I’m not here to play the game of whataboutism that you and Blaine love to do. From what I’ve personally seen, these cages hold up well. Your mileage may vary. On another note, have you even seen how terrible the stock roll bar is put together? I would much rather have some DOM tubing than that.

I really don't understand most of the tubular "cages" that most folks put in their rigs. The factory B-pillar is 2.5" x .120 wall. It is stupid strong if you understand how strength scales when it comes to tubing.

Real cages should not have any compromises. Stanchion design is a compromise for ease of install. I would rather run the stock cage and be careful/alert/aware of the risks than run something like PSC with a false sense of security. No one can predict that our rigs will only have the risk of specific type of flop or roll off-road irrespective of what cage is there in the vehicle. Just ask @hosejockey61 for example. Whatever example you show above .. the next rig that flops may not have the same conditions and may have a much worse outcome. Which means, any cage that we put needs to account for that uncertainty .. how does the PSC cage accomplish that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
after handling it all i think the weakest point of what the factory gave is the windscreen braces. from the B bar back is sturdier than i had expected. changing it expecting a strength increase over the OE tubes may not be completely accurate in some instances.

i like having tube A pillars, i think it will help absorb some of the stress on the windscreen support bars. it won't save the windscreen but might keep it out of my face. as stated above, 1 flop or roll and all my work is scrap and by tying things together almost ensures deformation in multiple locations if it receives enough energy.
but in the end, i like mine, i did the work. i think it's better lookin than bare OE bars and trust it will do at least as well as what it was. but i have no crystal ball.
as much as it sucks the truth of it is, once off road any sport bar sys has entered the realm of disposable item.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GPK03X