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Possible driveshaft or pinion angle issues

cpwolf

Armed Texan
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I hear ya on the bushing, yeah a crowbar and I can put some wiggle to it, specially if I'm trying to wiggle it between the force of the clamp / bracket, like not side to side but front to back (if I'm explaining this right), I get movement that way too. Slight, very so slight but its there... moves a bit more at full lock left or right as well.

Do you believe that the weight of your TJ at 50 mph would be the same as the force you're putting on to get movement?

Rhetorical question you don't need to answer, if you have problems, then get a new track bar and post back
 

Vtx531

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You had a Jeep with no vibrations to start. And added tires that also had no vibration. The only thing that changed was springs and shocks - that's what you said. I'm guessing you didn't do anything with the trackbar and it sounds fine anyways.

Can you run back through what you did to install the springs and shocks? What bolts did you loosen? What parts did you unhook and reattach? Lower control arms? Upper control arms? Maybe the trackbar was unhooked to get the axle lowered?
 
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catbones2010

catbones2010

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You had a Jeep with no vibrations to start. And added tires that also had no vibration. The only thing that changed was springs and shocks - that's what you said. I'm guessing you didn't do anything with the trackbar and it sounds fine anyways.

Can you run back through what you did to install the springs and shocks? What bolts did you loosen? What parts did you unhook and reattach? Lower control arms? Upper control arms? Maybe the trackbar was unhooked to get the axle lowered?

Yeah sure I can run through that, since its 2" no need to drop any trackbar or control arm just just let it drop. I think the only thing I did unhook was sway bar links. The rear trackbar was unhooked to add the relocation bracket, everything tightened to spec. Same with shocks, back into spec torqued. Now since I've been chasing this for a bit, the only thing I added to the 2" lift + tires would be the tie rod from ZJ which is a lot stronger. My next move would of been trackbar. All measurements check out, maybe my caster is off but my angle with the driveshaft is per spec now. Heck, no driveshaft now either since everyone said take that off and see if its ujoints.
 

Vtx531

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Yeah sure I can run through that, since its 2" no need to drop any trackbar or control arm just just let it drop. I think the only thing I did unhook was sway bar links. The rear trackbar was unhooked to add the relocation bracket, everything tightened to spec. Same with shocks, back into spec torqued. Now since I've been chasing this for a bit, the only thing I added to the 2" lift + tires would be the tie rod from ZJ which is a lot stronger. My next move would of been trackbar. All measurements check out, maybe my caster is off but my angle with the driveshaft is per spec now. Heck, no driveshaft now either since everyone said take that off and see if its ujoints.

So we have a rear trackbar relocation bracket + the springs and shocks and ZJ front track bar but that was after the vibrations/shimmy began. Any other parts added or changed when adding the lift? Any steering parts changed? Was this a specific lift kit or pieced together sort of deal?
 
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catbones2010

catbones2010

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So we have a rear trackbar relocation bracket + the springs and shocks and ZJ front track bar but that was after the vibrations/shimmy began. Any other parts added or changed when adding the lift? Any steering parts changed? Was this a specific lift kit or pieced together sort of deal?

So it was specific lift with shocks, like LJ specific nothing out of the ordinary getting a kit or putting something together in hopes of money or cheap parts. Like I said in previous post, I don't remember noticing the vibration with the lift on and 30s, putting 33s on, I did .. yet its weird because sometimes its there and sometimes it isn't depending on how fast I accelerate past it, if I go slow from 40 - 55 .. it'll happen, if I got fast it wont. I've tried different roads, etc.. so its weird and strange. Since shimmy began, I went over everything and tightened it, greased it, etc.. put ZJ front tie rod on to spec. New stabilizer from Teraflex. Noticed the rear being out a little more so added the bracket for relocation of the rear trackbar, didn't replaced the trackbar just used the stock, tightened to spec. The shimmy was before the ZJ tie rod and trackbar relocation.

So here we are, unless that little bit of play I got with screwdriver put between the bracket and trackbar at the axle is the issue, no other ideas other then maybe wheel hubs or ball joints. Which if it was hubs or ball joints wouldn't I have it at all times since things wouldn't hold right no matter what speed I'm at.

Another thing comes to mind, I already played with adjustment of caster, 4, 6, 7, now I thinkts it like 8, nothing... so its not caster, also don't have the driveshaft in now either since someone said ujoints. So really, down to 3 things before maybe bushings in the control arms gone. Don't know.

I did take it this evening to the 4x4 shop to just have them look at the trackbar and the play I described above, the tech was super nice, looked under had me wiggle the steering, was there forever and then said. Let's go inside and get you scheduled so I can take a closer look at things. So Monday, 9:30 it is. I asked him about the trackbar and he said some things may look loose but they arent when I explained the bit of movement with the screwdriver between the bracket and trackbar at the axle.
 

Vtx531

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So it was specific lift with shocks, like LJ specific nothing out of the ordinary getting a kit or putting something together in hopes of money or cheap parts. Like I said in previous post, I don't remember noticing the vibration with the lift on and 30s, putting 33s on, I did .. yet its weird because sometimes its there and sometimes it isn't depending on how fast I accelerate past it, if I go slow from 40 - 55 .. it'll happen, if I got fast it wont. I've tried different roads, etc.. so its weird and strange. Since shimmy began, I went over everything and tightened it, greased it, etc.. put ZJ front tie rod on to spec. New stabilizer from Teraflex. Noticed the rear being out a little more so added the bracket for relocation of the rear trackbar, didn't replaced the trackbar just used the stock, tightened to spec. The shimmy was before the ZJ tie rod and trackbar relocation.

So here we are, unless that little bit of play I got with screwdriver put between the bracket and trackbar at the axle is the issue, no other ideas other then maybe wheel hubs or ball joints. Which if it was hubs or ball joints wouldn't I have it at all times since things wouldn't hold right no matter what speed I'm at.

Another thing comes to mind, I already played with adjustment of caster, 4, 6, 7, now I thinkts it like 8, nothing... so its not caster, also don't have the driveshaft in now either since someone said ujoints. So really, down to 3 things before maybe bushings in the control arms gone. Don't know.

I did take it this evening to the 4x4 shop to just have them look at the trackbar and the play I described above, the tech was super nice, looked under had me wiggle the steering, was there forever and then said. Let's go inside and get you scheduled so I can take a closer look at things. So Monday, 9:30 it is. I asked him about the trackbar and he said some things may look loose but they arent when I explained the bit of movement with the screwdriver between the bracket and trackbar at the axle.

You could tell the difference between a bit of movement that is normal from the rubber squishing and movement that is not normal from something worn or loose. Doubt it's that.

One thing I am thinking it might be is all your bushings being preloaded in ways they are not intended and causing some sort of oscillation. You changed the ride height with the springs and you really should loosen every bolt for bushings that are affected and retighten to spec with the weight of the Jeep on the ground at ride height. That would mean both trackbars (rear - axle and frame side, front - axle side only), all four control arms- axle and frame side, all swaybars. I don't think that's it but strange things can happen. As with death wobble, maybe its some sort of road condition or who knows what that could set the system in motion and then it damps down until it is upset again.
 

Vtx531

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catbones2010

catbones2010

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Ah, you are absolutely right. So stock trackbar... ? Think you got it.

I think 1853 video shows the best, the movement... my daughter was just moving the steering while I was filming. In 1851 video I'm also trying to show that I can move the trackbar between the bracket, even though that bolt is clamped tight per spec.
 
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catbones2010

catbones2010

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Ah, you are absolutely right. So stock trackbar... ? Think you got it.

I'm also sure this moves a lot more with 60lbs or so tires going at 50mph and bouncing left and right, more then steering wheel turn a few degrees this way and that way. Right?
 

Mikee024

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I'm also not sure if its stock trackbar because its greasable, did 2006 LJs and TJs come with greasable parts?

I wouldn’t worry so much about what the damaged part is…that’s getting caught up in the weeds with a microscope.

I’d install a RockJock trackbar (proven to be excellent with larger tires) and move on with life and enjoying your rig.

Otherwise good steering parts can get ruined when mated with inferior/worn steering parts (causing those parts to go bad and needing to be replaced again along with the other bad parts…this is a circle jerk you’d rather not participate in).

I’d replace anything that’s worn with quality parts, otherwise you burn your time and then pay out later anyways.
 
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catbones2010

catbones2010

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I wouldn’t worry so much about what the damaged part is…that’s getting caught up in the weeds with a microscope.

I’d install a RockJock trackbar (proven to be excellent with larger tires) and move on with life and enjoying your rig.

Otherwise good steering parts can get ruined when mated with inferior/worn steering parts (causing those parts to go bad and needing to be replaced again along with the other bad parts…this is a circle jerk you’d rather not participate in).

I’d replace anything that’s worn with quality parts, otherwise you burn your time and then pay out later anyways.

Yeah I know, just want to make sure it's the trackbar rather then replace bunch of parts before it
 

Mikee024

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Yeah I know, just want to make sure it's the trackbar rather then replace bunch of parts before it

I understand keeping good parts, but if you find something wrong then it makes sense to fix it otherwise what's the point of seeing if it checks bad. If it's not bad, then don't fix it.

Have you properly checked your wheel bearings, pitman arm, and ball joints for play?

BTW, if you don't know what you're looking for or don't trust yourself to make a call when you find something worn, then just take it to someone that you trust. Hopefully, this guy you take it to will be honest.

If you really want to avoid paying money, then maybe try to find a Jeep buddy to swap wheels with for a few minutes in order to eliminate that as a potential problem. I'd happily swap with you but my Jeep's not here with me.

Best of luck on this.
 
Last edited:

Mikee024

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No conclusion in stone, I've had done everything listed or spoke about here and then also balanced tires + alignment, still about 5% of the vibration but I'll live with it.

In all, 5% sounds like it could be annoying but also sounds safe for now. Best of luck finding the annoyance later down the line without trying too hard to find it. Until then, enjoy it!
 
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catbones2010

catbones2010

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In all, 5% sounds like it could be annoying but also sounds safe for now. Best of luck finding the annoyance later down the line without trying too hard to find it. Until then, enjoy it!

Yeah its for sure less noticable and very much acceptable. Will do enjoy it and thank you.