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Predictions for this Ukraine Controversy

Ericict

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Regardless of what happens with all of this, there will be a number of people cheering for our (the US) failure from both inside and outside the country. We have a lot working against us and many who want to reshape America to something it was never intended to be. Its kind of scary when you look at all the possibilities.
 
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Equilibrium31

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I agree. People are so eager to see him gone, but if he goes, we get Pence. Like you said, I think Pence will push the same agenda Trump has been pushing, he'll just do it in a way that isn't as offensive as Trump (not to mention he doesn't have the man baby personality either). And what happens if Pence gets wrapped up in the scandal? Then we get McConnell, right? Well I'm sure that would make the Democrats very happy :ROFLMAO:

I think that this whole impeachment thing is going to have a big effect on the next election, but as you said, time will tell.

I think the impeachment thing is bad news altogether. They'd probably be smarter if they just let him finish up his term and focused instead on trying to beat him.
Regardless of whether the impeachment is good or bad from a political, economic, or whatever else perspective, if the president is abusing power for personal gain and/or breaking laws, they should still be impeached.

If we allow whoever is elected president to do whatever they want want, then we risk something much worse.
 
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reddvltj

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I agree abuse of power for any reason is wrong!! No matter if you're the President of the US, a corporation, or just a High school class President...

Although technically I do not believe this to be an abuse of power. Just because the left leaning media and the democratic party say it is, simply does not make it so. If in fact the only reason he is doing it is to one up Biden than yeah it's an underhanded cowardly act. But as so many have said in this discussion already... if a crime has been committed then the perpetrator should be punished. If the Justice department would do their job and actually investigate things like they should maybe the President wouldn't have to.

Is this truly the first time any US president has done something like this? I don't honestly know, but it is the first time a sitting president that the media doesn't like has done it. The media's propensity for outing every little thing Trump does (admittedly his rampant tweets also fall into this category) and and relentless lack of telling the whole story has every thing to do with the current situation the US is in.

@Equilibrium31 , earlier in the thread you linked an article "Bloomberg - Are you a robot?" that seemingly exonerates Biden, I can find plenty of articles that say the exact opposite and have "factual" evidence and "corroborative testimony" from "X" foreign officials. The problem is we're to a point that we can no longer trust any of the media outlets to not be one sided. Whether that's due to lack of investigative skills, lack of journalistic integrity, or just plain old fashioned greed (bought and paid for media). This is now the world we live in.... because it's not just a problem in our country... Media bias is rampant world wide!!!

"Can't we all just get along"
 
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Equilibrium31

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@Equilibrium31 , earlier in the thread you linked an article "Bloomberg - Are you a robot?" that seemingly exonerates Biden, I can find plenty of articles that say the exact opposite and have "factual" evidence and "corroborative testimony" from "X" foreign officials. The problem is we're to a point that we can no longer trust any or the media outlets to not be one sided. Whether that's due to lack of investigative skills, lack of journalistic integrity, or just plain old fashioned greed (bought and paid for media). This is now the world we live in.... because it's not just a problem in our country... Media bias is rampant world wide!!!

"Can't we all just get along"
Yea, I'll dig a bit deeper and see if I can find more about where their claim is coming from. Any chance you can link articles that claim to have evidence to the contrary? I'm curious where all this leads.

If there's evidence pointing towards potential wrongdoing from Biden, then there should definitely be the DoJ investigating, but there needs to be some separation so that this isn't driven by the president or those who benefit from his re-election.
 

reddvltj

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Yea, I'll dig a bit deeper and see if I can find more about where their claim is coming from. Any chance you can link articles that claim to have evidence to the contrary? I'm curious where all this leads.

If there's evidence pointing towards potential wrongdoing from Biden, then there should definitely be the DoJ investigating, but there needs to be some separation so that this isn't driven by the president or those who benefit from his re-election.
I didn't save any of the links but a google search pops up arguments from both sides.. like I said, Who do we trust and how can we be certain if those we trust are telling the whole story?
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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I didn't save any of the links but a google search pops up arguments from both sides.. like I said, Who do we trust and how can we be certain if those we trust are telling the whole story?
It's definitely getting harder and harder as both sides bunker down in their loyalty to their political affiliation. I think that's why we'll need some really rock-hard evidence to come up from the investigations for us to get anywhere beyond these investigative quagmires.
 

Ericict

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I lost all faith in the DOJ and Media over the Clinton emails. Her lack of care concerning the classified information was beyond belief. She got a pass that a number of service members and civilians did not. She broke the law and it was allowed and covered up.

I agree it is so hard to find the truth anymore. Its almost come to if there isn't a sound bite with transcript, I am not believing it. What's sad is I am not a cynical person by nature but I am sure leaning that way anymore.

At least with this group it stays classy and if it gets hot, some one throws a "nice wheels, where did you get them?" and we are all friends again. Wish the world was that way.
 

Chris

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It's very, very hard to find truth in the media these days. The problem is that people read what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe.

It's just like I always tell my wife when she tells me stories about the guy next door having an affair, her sister cheating on her boyfriend, etc. I tell her that the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Listen to her story, listen to his story, and then you can almost always be sure that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

There's a lot of people writing "news" articles in this day and age. Most of those people have an opinion, a bias, etc. Unfortunately, more often than not, that "opinion" is pretty transparent when reading the article. It's also become very important to fact check articles these days.
 

reddvltj

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At least with this group it stays classy and if it gets hot, some one throws a "nice wheels, where did you get them?" and we are all friends again. Wish the world was that way.
That is one of the things I like the most about what @Chris put together for us!
 
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Chris

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That is one of the things I like the most about what @Chris put together for us!
Ha, I just made the forum, it's just a stroke of luck that all the good, well behaved people happened to end up here.

A post like this on Facebook would very, very quickly devolve into name calling, bashing, and pure drama. It amazes me how people are so often unable to have a conversation like this without resorting to childish behavior.

I'm not sure any of us has the solution to all of our countries problems. I'm not sure anyone does.
 

reddvltj

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Ha, I just made the forum, it's just a stroke of luck that all the good, well behaved people happened to end up here.

A post like this on Facebook would very, very quickly devolve into name calling, bashing, and pure drama. It amazes me how people are so often unable to have a conversation like this without resorting to childish behavior.

I'm not sure any of us has the solution to all of our countries problems. I'm not sure anyone does.
We all share a common bond here! We all love our TJs for better or worse!!! haha Ok so we could have love hate relationships with them too!!
 
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chino1969

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If indeed hard evidence shows Trump is guilty as charged, it is the duty of congress to impeach. That is their fucking job and nobody, including Trump, is above the law. If this is yet another distraction by those still unable to accept Hillary's defeat then the record should reflect that and they are not fit to serve. It is really quite simple. For 2+ years we have been inundated with charges of Russian collusion and yet, after a lengthy investigation, there was no smoking gun. As I see it, the very same people who are unable to accept Hillary's defeat are unable to accept the results of the Mueller investigation. Many will stop at nothing to try to discredit or attempt to remove him from power. Once again, very clearly. If there is solid evidence to impeach it is the job of congress to impeach. If not, the American people need to open their eyes to what is happening to our republic as well as identify the enemies within.
 

chino1969

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That is one of the things I like the most about what @Chris put together for us!
I agree. There have been passionate discussions with differing points of view but everyone has maintained a civil tone. It's one of the reasons this is the only internet forum I read or post on. Gave up FB long ago and never had a Twitter account; never will.
 

chino1969

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We all share a common bond here! We all love our TJs for better or worse!!! haha Ok so we could have love hate relationships with them too!!
If this were FB it would have turned ugly long ago. One of the reasons I don't post or read any of the posts on FB. Everyone here maintains a civil tone.
 
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chino1969

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Regardless of whether the impeachment is good or bad from a political, economic, or whatever else perspective, if the president is abusing power for personal gain and/or breaking laws, they should still be impeached.

If we allow whoever is elected president to do whatever they want want, then we risk something much worse.
Nobody is above the law. If hard evidence supports impeachment it is the job of congress to impeach.
 
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Hook_62

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I lost all faith in the DOJ and Media over the Clinton emails. Her lack of care concerning the classified information was beyond belief. She got a pass that a number of service members and civilians did not. She broke the law and it was allowed and covered up.

I agree it is so hard to find the truth anymore. Its almost come to if there isn't a sound bite with transcript, I am not believing it. What's sad is I am not a cynical person by nature but I am sure leaning that way anymore.

At least with this group it stays classy and if it gets hot, some one throws a "nice wheels, where did you get them?" and we are all friends again. Wish the world was that way.
Right! Why is it, if your a democrat, you get a pass. I'm talking the MSM won't even look at you let alone do any real journalism,,, HRC, James Comey, the lies that Brennan and Clapper have told etc, etc. If you want to know what is really going on you can't read or watch the likes of Reuters, CNBC, BBC, MSNBC, the Washington Compost or the New York Slimes. This was published over 4 months ago on Youtube.

Really, 4 months ago! Where the hell is all the real journalism or the DOJ. Trump actually has to ask the Ukrainian president for a "favor" to look into the 2016 meddling of a US election in order to shed some light and get some lazy F#%k's off their asses? And by the way there is no crime in asking for a favor, Y'all can make shit up if you like but there isn't one there. So Biden gets a pass when he is actually on video bragging about a Quid Pro Quo, but Trump is the criminal? What kind of ass backwards shit is this?

Edit: @Chris for some reason my links always say "the connection has been reset" any ideas?
link address: https://youtube/fNBKAecsBOY[/MEDIA]
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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Right! Why is it, if your a democrat, you get a pass. I'm talking the MSM won't even look at you let alone do any real journalism,,, HRC, James Comey, the lies that Brennan and Clapper have told etc, etc. If you want to know what is really going on you can't read or watch the likes of Reuters, CNBC, BBC, MSNBC, the Washington Compost or the New York Slimes. This was published over 4 months ago on Youtube.

Really, 4 months ago! Where the hell is all the real journalism or the DOJ. Trump actually has to ask the Ukrainian president for a "favor" to look into the 2016 meddling of a US election in order to shed some light and get some lazy F#%k's off their asses? And by the way there is no crime there, Y'all can make shit up if you like but there isn't one there. So Biden gets a pass when he is actually on video bragging about it a Quid Pro Quo, but Trump is the criminal? What kind of ass backwards shit is this?

Edit: @Chris for some reason my links always say "the connection has been reset" any ideas?
link address: https://youtube/fNBKAecsBOY[/MEDIA]
Why exactly should anyone take this random youtuber more seriously than any of those news sources?

What exactly do you find to be objective about this video? This is a political entertainment video that frequently cites Breitbart, the radical right wing news network that's been frequently failed fact checks.

Hell, the video is even full of advertisements for a "Career Resume Consulting" that flash "MAGA" and pander to right-wing Trump supporters.

Oh, and that video that you say all these news networks are overlooking? This video explicitly cites an article from left biased media company, The Hill, talking about this specific video in 2018. This has also been talked about by most news networks.

NBC News said:
Biden has taken credit for getting the prosecutor removed, boasting about it as a win for anticorruption in the country.

NPR said:
At an event at the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018, Biden said he made one of his many trips to Ukraine in March 2016 and told the country's leaders that they had to get rid of the prosecutor if they wanted $1 billion in U.S. aid.

"I said, 'You're not getting the [$1 billion]. I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' Well, son of a b****. He got fired," Biden said.

BBC said:
In a speech last year at a think tank Mr Biden boasted of having threatened to withhold a billion-dollar loan guarantee to successfully force Mr Shokin out.

"I looked at them and said 'I'm leaving in six hours: if the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money'," he said.

In the whole story, there's never been any doubt that Joe Biden wanted the prosecutor fired and threatened to withhold funds to pressure Ukraine on this.

Biden threatened to withhold loan guarantees unless Ukraine’s top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who had been widely accused of corruption, was removed.

The difference is that they don't try to make their case with character slander and throwing around the word "cocaine" a million times. They let the facts tell the story.

Also, CNBC, New York Times, and Washington Post are clear left-leaning news companies, so take their opinion with a grain of salt. Still, they have a much stronger track record on the facts than Breitbart.
 

Ericict

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Right! Why is it, if your a democrat, you get a pass. I'm talking the MSM won't even look at you let alone do any real journalism,,, HRC, James Comey, the lies that Brennan and Clapper have told etc, etc. If you want to know what is really going on you can't read or watch the likes of Reuters, CNBC, BBC, MSNBC, the Washington Compost or the New York Slimes. This was published over 4 months ago on Youtube.

Really, 4 months ago! Where the hell is all the real journalism or the DOJ. Trump actually has to ask the Ukrainian president for a "favor" to look into the 2016 meddling of a US election in order to shed some light and get some lazy F#%k's off their asses? And by the way there is no crime in asking for a favor, Y'all can make shit up if you like but there isn't one there. So Biden gets a pass when he is actually on video bragging about a Quid Pro Quo, but Trump is the criminal? What kind of ass backwards shit is this?

Edit: @Chris for some reason my links always say "the connection has been reset" any ideas?
link address: https://youtube/fNBKAecsBOY[/MEDIA]
I don’t think a crime was committed at all. I couldn’t understand why Pompeo was involved and yet didn’t come forward. Turns out we have a Treaty with them from Pres. Clintons time in office concerning crimes and investigations. Based on this, the Dems are just Playing game, knowing most will not look any further than the tv and will not question.

 
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Brianj5600

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That's a matter of perspective. Government is just like big business, and pulling out of a deal when you aren't getting the results or deal you want is not always a bad idea. It can be, and often is, used as a statement saying "Screw you! You need us we don't need you!"
I agree. People are so eager to see him gone, but if he goes, we get Pence. Like you said, I think Pence will push the same agenda Trump has been pushing, he'll just do it in a way that isn't as offensive as Trump (not to mention he doesn't have the man baby personality either). And what happens if Pence gets wrapped up in the scandal? Then we get Pelosi, right? Well I'm sure that would make the Democrats very happy :ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO:That would make Democrats happy:ROFLMAO:
 
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