Recovery rope vs recovery strap

The thinking is "current" in the sense that in the "old days" there was no critical thinking at all because nearly everyone used the ubiquitous yellow 30,000# tow strap with loops on each end which was typically the only option kept in stock by the 4WD stores. I never heard the words kinetic energy or the term "recovery rope" during any recovery situation or around any campfire until after the turn of the 21st Century.
 
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Mr. Bills said:
I never heard the words kinetic energy or the term "recovery rope" during any recovery situation or around any campfire until after the turn of the 21st Century.
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In Alberta, Canada they were already in use in the oilfield and trucking industry in the late '80s when I started driving trucks. Those were the 100K pound snatch em straps.
 
I'm sure they were. Also in the marine industry and many others. Mountain climbers too. However, the technology hadn't yet been applied to products readily available to the average Joe Jeeper at any reasonable price point.

I can remember when synthetic winch line first became a thing. People complained vociferously about the cost and many refused to even consider synthetic winch line for that reason alone. Over time the price has come down and awareness of the benefits of synthetic winch lines, soft shackles, closed recovery systems and kinetic ropes has increased. Price doesn't seem to be the hot button it once was.
 
Mr. Bills said:
I'm sure they were. Also in the marine industry and many others. Mountain climbers too. However, the technology hadn't yet been applied to products readily available to the average Joe Jeeper at any reasonable price point.

I can remember when synthetic winch line first became a thing. People complained vociferously about the cost and many refused to even consider synthetic winch line for that reason alone. Over time the price has come down and awareness of the benefits of synthetic winch lines, soft shackles, closed recovery systems and kinetic ropes has increased. Price doesn't seem to be the hot button it once was.
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The price thing is sorta relative. When I first started using synthetic line, I was paying around 150 bucks for a 3/8" line, quality thimble, and locking hook. I can't do that now with any reasonable assurance of quality.

I suspect the kinetic rope thing is based on your particular group knowledge base. I had the pleasure of hooking up with Harry Lewellyn early on in our offroading infancy and learned from him about snatch ropes and straps and the differences therein. That and we didn't refer to them as kinetic anything. Just tow and snatch.
 
Harry Llewellyn was an interesting guy. I learned a lot from him, but not about snatch straps just tow. The last time I saw Harry was in the mid to late 1990's at the Bahia Corinthian Yacht Club in Newport Beach where he had booked a meeting room to recruit participants for one of his guided expeditions. Is he still with us? I hope so.
 
Mr. Bills said:
Harry Llewellyn was an interesting guy. I learned a lot from him, but not about snatch straps just tow. The last time I saw Harry was in the mid to late 1990's at the Bahia Corinthian Yacht Club in Newport Beach where he had booked a meeting room to recruit participants for one of his guided expeditions. Is he still with us? I hope so.
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He is. He is the owner of Coyote inner bead locks and has pretty much perfected the preset air down valves since everyone else seemed to do little other than fuck them up.

Our first offroad trip ever was on one of his runs to Los Coyotes Indian Reservation in 98. I learned many things on that trip and a few after that. Summer tent camping sucks. Jeeps with few to no mods other than a slightly bigger set of tires pretty much rule that part of the world. Harry is a very smart individual. People don't know how to ask questions they want the answer to. Egos bigger than normal suck. CJ owners typically have egos bigger than Texas.
 
Mr. Bills said:
I had a CJ. My ego was only as big as New Mexico. ;)
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Wheeling trip to LCIR, met up with a CJ. He and his buddy tagged along since they were unfamiliar with the area. About 2 miles from the main camping area, his poor electrical management bit him hard when the CJ inner fender pinched his positive battery cable and blew up his battery when it shorted out. CJ wouldn't run very long for some reason, only a couple hundred yards and then die for an extended period of time. We offered to tow him back to camp and he accepted. Got to almost within site of the camp and he flagged us to stop. Made us unhook from him so he could drive it in. He almost made it. We left him alone after that.

CJ owner worked us like dogs running a high lift and stack rocks rather than pull cable to the anchor tree 20 feet away.

CJ owner on a run for Fun in the Desert on Wrecking Ball. Refuses to use his winch on a bad stuck. Breaks a u-joint/stub just pas the entrance. Won't pull cable to help with self recovery. Makes the guides work their asses off to get him turned around and back to the beginning of the trail 25 yards away. On the way out, comments that he is happy that he made it 10 feet further than he did last year. Parks it for the rest of the 3 day weekend.

There are more and I realize all CJ owners aren't that way but I sure seem to attract the ones that are.
 
Just because I had a CJ or two doesn't mean I'm blind to the phenomenon of CJ owners and Texas-size egos.

I was one of the "counselors" and paid trail guides at Camp Jeep when Chrysler brought that shit show to Central California in 2004 or 2005. I remember having to tone down the colossal egos of several guys in highly modified rigs who were pissed when they discovered that we were only doing milk runs for new jeep owners to give them a small taste of offroading and irate when we told them that they had to stay on the designated trails and in line where we put them. There was a moment or two when I thought I was going to be beaten to a pulp or shot. Even when they calmed down they couldn't refrain from telling us that we were teaching the newbies all wrong. Funny thing was that we were using Harry Baker's syllabus from the Cal4Wheel offroad safety course taught at Hungry Valley and Hollister to this day.

But you don't think that TJ owners are immune from egos, do you?
 
Mr. Bills said:
But you don't think that TJ owners are immune from egos, do you?
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Not in the least. Your paid guide comment reminds of the single largest group of big ego morons in TJ's I've ever encountered. Those would be the guides for Jeep Jamboree. I was a paid guide for JJ for the short lead media launch of the JK for two weeks on the Rubicon. The biggest stumbling block our group ran into was the JJ guides didn't believe we could actually guide and pitched enough of a bitch fit that we got relegated to car wash and detail duty. We detailed 14 JKs from dirty dusty trail driven up Cadillac Hill to Tahoe, over to the ski resort they were staged at and then back down to the springs, to pristine show room shine 4 separate times. That included Armor All in the tire tread blocks so they looked new. In case anyone is wondering, dirt doesn't shine up when you put Armor All on it. It still looks like dirt.
 
I've always used the Snatchem Straps and carry two in my Jeep and then the 6' tree strap as I hate seeing the marks left in trees from people winching.

I've seen the strap work where a smaller rig can pull a larger rig out of the mud. I have also used the cargo straps the military uses for towing and anchor points because they didn't stretch like the straps. I've looked at the ropes before but have never tried out yet. Seems to be lighter and easier to carry so I might have to get one.
 
I used a kinetic energy rope a few times this week to recover stuck vehicles in the snow, a trail blazer stuck in a snow drift, the f-350 that got stuck trying to pull out the trailblazer with a tow strap, and today I used it to pull out a fully loaded propane tractor trailer about 85,000 lbs that was stuck in the mud(hooked up to a 3/4 ton duramax not my jeep) using the kinetic rope made all these recoverys happen quickly and easily. The trailblazer and f-350 where pulled out on an extremely icy road during the blizzard we had here Wednesday
 
Mr. Bills said:
Harry Llewellyn was an interesting guy. I learned a lot from him, but not about snatch straps just tow. The last time I saw Harry was in the mid to late 1990's at the Bahia Corinthian Yacht Club in Newport Beach where he had booked a meeting room to recruit participants for one of his guided expeditions. Is he still with us? I hope so.
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I just met him last month. Good guy and easy to talk to. We chatted it up for a while before I realized that I better let him get back to work. I realize now that I have been using his deflators.
 
strumble8 said:
I used a kinetic energy rope a few times this week to recover stuck vehicles in the snow, a trail blazer stuck in a snow drift, the f-350 that got stuck trying to pull out the trailblazer with a tow strap, and today I used it to pull out a fully loaded propane tractor trailer about 85,000 lbs that was stuck in the mud(hooked up to a 3/4 ton duramax not my jeep) using the kinetic rope made all these recoverys happen quickly and easily. The trailblazer and f-350 where pulled out on an extremely icy road during the blizzard we had here Wednesday
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That speaks volumes to me. What brand rope are you using? And what size?
 
Wildman said:
That speaks volumes to me. What brand rope are you using? And what size?
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I have a bubba rope renegade 3/4"×20' it's rated at 19,500lbs. So I'm sure someone will point out that that is much less than the 85k the tractor trailer weighs. I am aware, it was a last ditch effort before paying 1k for a tow truck to pull it out. Just remember that you shouldn't tow someone with a kinetic rope, and don't use a tow strap to do a rolling recovery. The tow strap will not stretch and can cause alot of damage to the vehicle's
 
Strumble8,
Agreed. I pulled a guy out once using a chain because he wouldn't use my strap. I ripped his rear frame rail almost off.
And I think this is where people get confused. There is a difference between a Snatchem Strap and a tow strap.
But I am going to look into getting a rope.
 
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