Related... but not the same

StG58

StG58

TJ Guru
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Orygun, the wet side...
There's a lot less love for the JK/U on this forum than one would expect from Jeeple. I suppose that this is to be expected though, it IS a TJ forum, right?

I'm going to compare a 1999 TJ SE with a 2012 Sport Unlimited. Both are in the family. I drive both, though the TJ is my primary vehicle. Feel free to abuse and badmouth the JKU all you want, but be aware that it has found a home with us and satisfies certain requirements that the little TJ can't. The opposite is also very true. What I am going to attempt to do is explain the similarities and the differences. Each discussion point will go into it's own post so you can more clearly and easily quote or bash or ask questions or whatever. Let's have some fun with this and maybe we can all learn something.
 
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Size matters...

Visually and dimensionally the SE and the JKU are worlds apart when it comes to size. (well duh, StG58!)

The SE is small. It looks small, feels small and drives small. You drive one, you know what I mean, right? No problem doing a point and shoot in tight spaces, because it feels like the TJ will fit. It usually does, too. Turn around on a logging road? No sweat. Jump onto a tight trail? No worries backing up far enough to turn around, because you don't need much space. Rocks, debris, holes,other rigs on a narrow trail? No problemo. Lots of room to maneuver. Small.

The JKU is, and feels, BIG by comparison. You have to think and pay attention to all the things that you take for granted in the TJ. Narrow trail? A JKU give a whole new meaning to narrow. While the measurements aren't all that different, the practical size is noticeably different. It's amazing what a few inches here and there does. On width, it feels like driving the Suburban. The same with height. You end up paying a lot more attention to what's around you in the JKU. A simple turn-around in the JKU sometimes becomes a whole process.

So there is one difference that jumps out immediately. The perception and reality of size.

It's the same way on the interior. I'm very used to reaching around and grabbing whatever I need in the TJ. Front, back, side - wherever. Just reach around and put your hands on it. Not so in the JKU. It's like everything is just out of reach, or there is console and other impediments in the way. On the other hand, there is room in the JKU. Not cramped to any extent. No joy on finding places to put small stuff to keep it from rolling around though, in the JKU. The console, glove box and door pockets are abysmal. The size is just wrong on all of them. At least for the stuff that typically gets thrown in them in our family. But, at least the JKU has those things.
 
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What makes this thing go?

Just like in the TJ, there are two engines for the rig. Well, three, if you get technical. For the Tj it's the 4.0 six, or a 2.5 or 2.4 four banger. For the JKU, there are two engines. A 3.8 V6 minivan motor of evil reputation or the significantly better 3.6 V6. The 3.6 may or may not be an improvement, it seems. The model year is what separates the two.

Between the 2.5 in the SE and the 3.6 in the JKU there is a world of difference.

Polar opposites in complexity. The JKU has lots of power on demand though, even with the stock crappy gear ratio and nominally 33" tires. There is lots of power to be had with easily, relatively speaking, engine modifications. Chips, super chargers, those sorts of things are out there for the 3.6. How is the engine going to react to those modifications in the long term? Who knows. It's a complex engine with a lot of moving parts. Right now, the JKU engine is stock, and works just fine. Right now, the TJ engine is stock. It works just fine as well.

The JKU does get slightly better gas mileage, and has a slightly higher comfortable top end. It does 80 mph on the freeway happily for hours on end. 18 mpg is typical for general running around and 21 mpg is not unheard of.

No comparison between doing maintenance on the JKU and the SE. One is evil and one is simple. Don't need to tell you which is which, right?
 
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Having owned two JKs in the last 11 years, among several TJs I have owned, I can offer input into the differences. I cannot, however, offer any experience with a JKU, as I have not owned or driven one.

I would own a JK 2-door, especially one made after 2012, in a minute. They are not so much bigger than a TJ that they feel huge, except inside. The two I have owned, one a Rubicon, the other a Sport, have been roomier, more comfortable on the road, and overall everything one expects from a Jeep. The newer engine since 2012, along with the auto tranny they now use is so powerful feeling and smooth, it feels great. There really is no comparison to the 2007-2011 JK powertrain.

Downside, of course, can be all the electronics, traction control, TPMS, etc. I had my Rubi go out once where absolutely nothing worked. Good news was, it took disconnecting the battery for a while, and all was well until I sold it 6 years later. The two door JK has a lot more room in the interior, especially behind the back seat, compared to a TJ.

There are other things I liked and disliked about the JK, and I'll chime in when I think more about it. Hands down, though, you cannot beat the looks and simplicity of the TJ compared to the JK. Hence my choice to sell my 2012 JK Sport to buy my current 2004 Rubicon.

In a perfect world, maybe I could talk my wife into driving a JK or a JKU instead of her Honda Civic. She loves being up higher than she is in a sedan.

I just hate all the JK angry bird/snarly face/light up the universe ahead of you light bar crap they sell and people buy to put on their JKUs...
 
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I could never get over how the grille and those fender flares looked on my JKs, though. I disliked those and never came to accept how they looked. The advantage of the JK grille, though, is being plastic, it did not get paint chips in it like the TJ grille can.
 
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glwood said:
I just hate all the JK angry bird/snarly face/light up the universe ahead of you light bar crap they sell and people buy to put on their JKUs...
Click to expand...

X2.

This is honestly the ONLY thing I hate about JKs. It's the type of people that the attract.

I'm not saying all JK drivers are douche bags, only 9 out of 10 of them.

Again, it's not the vehicle itself, it's the hideous modifications these people do to them.
 
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glwood said:
Having owned two JKs in the last 11 years, among several TJs I have owned, I can offer input into the differences. I cannot, however, offer any experience with a JKU, as I have not owned or driven one.

I would own a JK 2-door, especially one made after 2012, in a minute. They are not so much bigger than a TJ that they feel huge, except inside. The two I have owned, one a Rubicon, the other a Sport, have been roomier, more comfortable on the road, and overall everything one expects from a Jeep. The newer engine since 2012, along with the auto tranny they now use is so powerful feeling and smooth, it feels great. There really is no comparison to the 2007-2011 JK powertrain.

Downside, of course, can be all the electronics, traction control, TPMS, etc. I had my Rubi go out once where absolutely nothing worked. Good news was, it took disconnecting the battery for a while, and all was well until I sold it 6 years later. The two door JK has a lot more room in the interior, especially behind the back seat, compared to a TJ.

There are other things I liked and disliked about the JK, and I'll chime in when I think more about it. Hands down, though, you cannot beat the looks and simplicity of the TJ compared to the JK. Hence my choice to sell my 2012 JK Sport to buy my current 2004 Rubicon.

In a perfect world, maybe I could talk my wife into driving a JK or a JKU instead of her Honda Civic. She loves being up higher than she is in a sedan.

I just hate all the JK angry bird/snarly face/light up the universe ahead of you light bar crap they sell and people buy to put on their JKUs...
Click to expand...
I'd appreciate and value your input, @glwood! The more the merrier!

I would own a post 2012 JKR in a New York minute, even if it meant sacrificing the things that the SE does so well. OK, it would be a tougher choice than that. It would simplify things though, wheels, tires, winch, a little armor and done.
 
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glwood said:
I could never get over how the grille and those fender flares looked on my JKs, though. I disliked those and never came to accept how they looked. The advantage of the JK grille, though, is being plastic, it did not get paint chips in it like the TJ grille can.
Click to expand...
I heard a rumor that the plastic grill and fenders on the JK/U's were put there by the Jeep engineers because they are cheap and easy to replace when damaged. Don't know if it's true, but there is is. Bend a front fender on a TJ and it's more complicated to replace. Bend a fender on a JK/U and it's pretty easy, appariently. Don't know for sure as I've never done either.
 
I do know that the plastic JK grille is easy to remove and put back on. It stands to reason that replacing it over a TJ grille would not only be easier, but most likely less costly. I also believe the fenders come off without too much work, they just leave a type of plastic framework underneath.

Another thing that I did not like on the JK is that the sheet metal seemed so thin. You could push the body panels in with not a lot of effort. I bent up the soft top channel once putting on a new tonneau cover on the back. The plastic flaps dented the channel since the top was so tight...

Cruise control in both of my JKs kept the Jeep up to speed with hardly any downshifting. On the 3.8 vs. 3.6 engine, I found myself going 80 mph on the highway in the 2012 Sport if I didn't pay attention...

I was not impressed with the NSG 6-speed in the JK Rubicon. It was noisy and sometimes clunky, especially in 4-low. The 2012 auto was miles ahead.
 
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If I wanted/needed a Wrangler as a daily, I'd probably go 2 door JK in a second. I like 'em just fine. Hell, I like most Jeeps period.
From a 1941 GI Jeep, all the way up to that ugly little Renegade thingy. They're all cool in some way.
I really don't understand the JK hate. I think that early on, JK drivers were mostly soccer moms and douche bags and deserved a little scorn.They had JK because they couldn't afford a Hummer. I remember the early days when none of them were really Jeeple. Now, most of them wave and appear to be less like posers and high maintenance trophy wives.

But I'm a car guy. If it's got 4 wheels and an engine, It's usually ok with me. In fact, what I find annoying is a car snob. "I'm cooler than you because I have a ______ and you don't".

That's really just juvenile and goofy.
 
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Wheels and tires

Stock to stock, the JKU has it over the TJ in putting a bigger tire on. 31x10R15 is the biggest tire for the TJ without doing mods. That is if you take the TJ off road. The JKU takes a 285-75R16 off road just fine. (Nominal 33x11.50 tire size) You may have to fiddle with the front plastic a bit, but it's easy and fast to do. Just like on the TJ, pay attention to the backspacing on the wheels for that little extra comfort zone and clearance. The JKU doesn't like 15" wheels. It's really hard to find a 15" wheel that will clear the brake calipers. I have the same tire, KO2's, in those two sizes on our Wranglers and they work equally well on both.
 
This bugs the —— out of me!

Carpets. It's a 10 minute exercise to remove the carpets from the TJ. Really easy to do. You have to unbolt stuff to remove the carpets in the JKU. How in the world are you going to get all the dirt and pine needles out of the JKU? Major oversight there. I bet the drain plugs are hard to remove and replace as well. On the other hand, the carpets in the JKU are nice. Thick, substantial and easy to clean.

Along the same lines, there are places to put the window surround knobs in the back of the JKU (It's a soft top / half door) That's a nice touch.

You know how some TJ's seem to have come from the factory with rust? Some JKU's seem to have come from the factory with a soft top that leaks. Ours did, and still does sometimes. Rust or a leaky top. Must be a Jeep thing.
 
I would like to see a quick side-by-side comparison of measurements posted somewhere in this forum (not necessarily this thread).
Things that come to mind are:
overall width (TJ vs JK)
axle width (WMS)
overall length (TJ/LJ vs JK/JKU)
wheelbase (TJ/LJ vs JK/JKU)
 
This is an awesome thread.

I will say that now I have a baby, 7 months old, it's a chore to haul all his stuff. Actually, it's a PITA.
And if we ever have another baby, I dunno how I'll make that work in my TJ.

So for me, I can see how a JKU would be nice to have. And so far, this thread hasn't convinced me that I need to sell my TJ :)
 
Our TJ wouldn't be our daily driver... never, not by any means, especially with a family. The TJ is our fun weekend car!

We've got a family vehicle for the usual daily driving business.
 
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