Roller Fairleads And Synthetic Line

Thanks for the explanation Blaine. I was more than confused when I read your above recommendation for me to abandon my roller fairlead and go back to the TRE hawse but it made sense after your follow on explanation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StG58 and Chris
Informative conversation. I guess I'll have to look at thimbles and splicing as well. Plus how the line attaches to the drum. And brake location in the winch. Not as straightforward as one would suppose, eh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: StG58
That's a fair explanation. The plastic fairleads was a stupid idea from the start. It'd be nice if all companies thought about the consequences of a product rather than just the profit/marketing/flavor of the month.
Basically if you aren't comfortable tying off to the crossbar across the top of any fairlead you use and then winching the front of the rig off the ground, don't use that product.

What you said about the difference in the size of opening of the winch plate vs. the fairlead was a big factor. It was something I hadn't thought of, but definitely wanted to avoid.
There was a "run what you brung" race up Sledgehammer several years ago. I watched Kevin Sacalas part his winch line at least 5 times after he broke an axle in the front and then tried to get off the trail and out of the way for the other racers. The opening in the mount was smaller than the opening in the fairlead and it would cut it as soon as the line came under load.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StG58 and PStov98TJ
There was a "run what you brung" race up Sledgehammer several years ago. I watched Kevin Sacalas part his winch line at least 5 times after he broke an axle in the front and then tried to get off the trail and out of the way for the other racers. The opening in the mount was smaller than the opening in the fairlead and it would cut it as soon as the line came under load.
Talk about frustrating and embarrassing. It really is a simple concept, but for people like me who haven't had much experience with winching, this is a huge thing to realize and pay attention to. It'll save you money, but also keep you safer. Even though synthetic line doesn't hold energy like a steel cable, I'd still rather not be close to one when it decides it's had enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JP13 and Chris
Informative conversation. I guess I'll have to look at thimbles and splicing as well. Plus how the line attaches to the drum. And brake location in the winch. Not as straightforward as one would suppose, eh?
Drum attachment is one of the more misunderstood things there is out there. I've done a lot of research and testing and know a whole bunch more than I should about it.

The common misconception is the anchor has to be very strong and that simply isn't true. It only has to be strong enough to hold the tail of the line while the 5 minimum wraps get tensioned at which point the load transfers to the wraps around the drum and the load never increases on the anchor.

Where the misconception is born is due to lines under load which do not deflect whatsoever getting over against the anchor side of the drum on a side pull and then as the drum turns it moves the anchor point past the rigid line and either wipes the screw out or shears the line out of the crimped end. I have the advantage of standing next to a winch as it was spooling in under load and watching it happen. That created a bit of knowledge that has helped me figure out a whole bunch of stuff and stopped me from a development path for a stronger anchor I was on because the issue wasn't the line turning on the drum and getting pulled out, it was actual physical damage from another source.

TRE's anchor system is one of the best for the side attachment styles like Warn uses on most of their winches.

Cute trick if you wreck your anchor and still need to use the winch. Pull all the line off and tape the tail to one side with duct tape. As you slowly spool in, put duct tape on the line so half of it is on the line and half it on the drum. Set it up in such a way that as the next wrap of line goes on, it spools over the duct tape on the drum. Do that for 5 wraps and it will not come loose.
 
. Even though synthetic line doesn't hold energy like a steel cable, I'd still rather not be close to one when it decides it's had enough.

Another big misconception/myth. Synthetic actually does stretch and store energy just like steel cable does. In fact, identically. The difference is really easy to illustrate and has to do with the physics of mass x velocity. Both travel at roughly the same speed if they part under the same load.

To understand the difference, you get 4' of steel winch line and give your buddy 4' of synthetic winch line. Now take turns enthusiastically whipping each other with them. I suspect your buddy will give up long before you do. Same holds true for it parting under load. It is moving the same speed but because the mass is so much less, the potential for damage is much lower.
 
Another big misconception/myth. Synthetic actually does stretch and store energy just like steel cable does. In fact, identically. The difference is really easy to illustrate and has to do with the physics of mass x velocity. Both travel at roughly the same speed if they part under the same load.

To understand the difference, you get 4' of steel winch line and give your buddy 4' of synthetic winch line. Now take turns enthusiastically whipping each other with them. I suspect your buddy will give up long before you do. Same holds true for it parting under load. It is moving the same speed but because the mass is so much less, the potential for damage is much lower.

Once again, I've spent too much time in medical books and not enough time keeping up with my physics. That makes perfect sense.
(Just realized this made me sound like a huge prick...I'm actually just a regular guy, probably a little nerdy, who likes the outdoors, tinkering with stuff, and challenging myself.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: StG58 and Chris
Glad to see this post. It made ZERO sense that a metal roller that moves with a rope would be more abrasive than a metal opening that is stationary and rubbed against. So important safety tip. Roller must overlap. Rollers must be burr free. Got it, thanks.
 
has anyone taken the temperature of a hawse vs steel roller fairlead under side load; considering the synthetic is supposed to weaken at 140°F? that would be interesting to see. full spool pull would be interesting to do a DOE with. I bet it would have a graph like a ujoint at full lock vs straight. yes, you would run out of drum at some point, but Im just studying all aspects. the real trick would be a UHMW sleeved steel set of rollers. best of both worlds.


looks like a TON of thought by Mr Blaine (and I dont want to start a Pirate-esqe pissing match), and I too have seen and experienced many different types of failures that in a lab youd never consider, but in a totally different aspect. here in the South, we have more failed hillclimb straight line pulls, not so many rock ledges etc. our wheeling is so different than the west coast rock gardens. so 'stickout' or rock smashing isnt so much of a thing. we typically run front and rear receiver hitch winches around here so everything is high and tight anyway. for self recovery in snow, no point in keeping going forwards...

I just dont like the idea of the static pully idea of a hawse (no matter the radius). AND I dont like the soggy/floppy all plastic roller idea. cant imagine nobody hasnt come up with a 'best of both worlds' type idea - maybe theres isnt the need for one? If youre going to dump >$100 on a fairlead, make it totally badass

however you can look at it this way as well. you simply cant use a hawse with steel cable (for long), it'll eat it up quick. you can get away with it with synthetic. economics, size and weight rule that fight. but you are doing your cable major injustice during a side pull dragging it across a static point and pushing any dust or dirt into it vs rolling across a roller surface with less friction. theres compromises both ways.
 
Last edited: