Savvy off-road sold? (the unofficial Savvy customer support and Savvy rant thread)

[L J]

That may well be - everybody has to set their own priorities.

Personal priorities and opinions of "worth" don't change the fact that a name brand, high quality lightbar is much more expensive than a low quality, chinesium lightbar. I made no value judgement.

But for the money, I could throw away 10+ Chinesium lightbars for less than THAT insane pricing.

That's not news. You could say that for most consumer products ever manufactured.

a complete rip-off.

 

[Zorba]

Personal priorities and opinions of "worth" don't change the fact that a name brand, high quality lightbar is much more expensive than a low quality, chinesium lightbar. I made no value judgement.

That's not news. You could say that for most consumer products ever manufactured.

View attachment 433277

I never said otherwise, and I think you know that. "More Expensive" is one thing, 10X the price for little to no difference in capability or even appearance is another. I just bough a 1911 that cost just over $300. Its a great gun, but I wouldn't pretend to place it in the same category as a $3k+ Wilson Combat or similar. But I can also see the difference between the two. Its a bit more difficult when one is comparing 10X priced light bulbs. On the other hand, the WC gun gets you an increment in features for its high price, but it isn't 10X better - which is, as you say:

You could say that for most consumer products ever manufactured.

True enough! But can't see it in a light bulb - its a commodity product.

 

[Hokahay]

I never said otherwise, and I think you know that. "More Expensive" is one thing, 10X the price for little to no difference in capability or even appearance is another. I just bough a 1911 that cost just over $300. Its a great gun, but I wouldn't pretend to place it in the same category as a $3k+ Wilson Combat or similar. But I can also see the difference between the two. Its a bit more difficult when one is comparing 10X priced light bulbs. On the other hand, the WC gun gets you an increment in features for its high price, but it isn't 10X better - which is, as you say:

True enough! But can't see it in a light bulb - its a commodity product.

Lol 300 dollar 1911. If it doesn't have a pony its a phony.

 

[mrblaine]

I never said otherwise, and I think you know that. "More Expensive" is one thing, 10X the price for little to no difference in capability or even appearance is another. I just bough a 1911 that cost just over $300. Its a great gun, but I wouldn't pretend to place it in the same category as a $3k+ Wilson Combat or similar. But I can also see the difference between the two. Its a bit more difficult when one is comparing 10X priced light bulbs. On the other hand, the WC gun gets you an increment in features for its high price, but it isn't 10X better - which is, as you say:

True enough! But can't see it in a light bulb - its a commodity product.

Here is where all the bullshit stops. The average mechanic is not going to pay what the good puller costs, the way I know this is that is how the one on the right wound up in the possession of my buddy who only needed to pull his pitman one more time instead of borrowing mine again. This is mine.

https://www.mactools.com/products/macpa150

He said he found his on craig's list and it was listed as good quality and he bought it because it wasn't expensive since he only needed it to do one pitman removal that was just put on a week prior.

This is the difference between exponentially more expensive and well worth it and the chinesium copy. We've pulled hundreds of pitman arms. Some are stuck so even hammering on them with the big impact won't do it so we hammer it and then take the shop hammer to the corner you see with the hammer marks and beat them loose so the impact will get them off.

His OTOH, never even got tight. From arm's length, the average Jeep owner won't know the difference.

 

[Zorba]

Here is where all the bullshit stops. The average mechanic is not going to pay what the good puller costs, the way I know this is that is how the one on the right wound up in the possession of my buddy who only needed to pull his pitman one more time instead of borrowing mine again. This is mine.

https://www.mactools.com/products/macpa150

He said he found his on craig's list and it was listed as good quality and he bought it because it wasn't expensive since he only needed it to do one pitman removal that was just put on a week prior.

This is the difference between exponentially more expensive and well worth it and the chinesium copy. We've pulled hundreds of pitman arms. Some are stuck so even hammering on them with the big impact won't do it so we hammer it and then take the shop hammer to the corner you see with the hammer marks and beat them loose so the impact will get them off.

His OTOH, never even got tight. From arm's length, the average Jeep owner won't know the difference.

View attachment 433393

View attachment 433394

View attachment 433395

View attachment 433396

That's fine - but was it 10X? Maybe it was - its essentially mission critical. A light bulb is not. I'd be willing to pay 10X for a goddamned decent TJ radiator "next time" if I knew the stupid thing would hold up. If a light bulb blows, who cares? If a radiator blows, you're having a bad day. If a mechanic breaks a tool, he wastes time/money. If a light bar blows, who cares? That's simply my point. There are times to pay more - rarely 10X more (but sometimes), and there's times to avoid getting ripped off. A $700 light bar is ridiculous, unless its going into outer space.

 

[Austin O.]

That's fine - but was it 10X? Maybe it was - it’s essentially mission critical. A light bulb is not. I'd be willing to pay 10X for a goddamned decent TJ radiator "next time" if I knew the stupid thing would hold up. If a light bulb blows, who cares? If a radiator blows, you're having a bad day. If a mechanic breaks a tool, he wastes time/money. If a light bar blows, who cares? That's simply my point. There are times to pay more - rarely 10X more (but sometimes), and there's times to avoid getting ripped off. A $700 light bar is ridiculous, unless it’s going into outer space.

Exactly my thought process when I saw that on the website. Totally agree with this

 

[Zorba]

Exactly my thought process when I saw that on the website. Totally agree with this

Shit - if you think the $70 light bar is crapola, and it might be - buy one for $200.

 

[mrblaine]

That's fine - but was it 10X? Maybe it was - its essentially mission critical. A light bulb is not. I'd be willing to pay 10X for a goddamned decent TJ radiator "next time" if I knew the stupid thing would hold up. If a light bulb blows, who cares? If a radiator blows, you're having a bad day. If a mechanic breaks a tool, he wastes time/money. If a light bar blows, who cares? That's simply my point. There are times to pay more - rarely 10X more (but sometimes), and there's times to avoid getting ripped off. A $700 light bar is ridiculous, unless its going into outer space.

If you define everything you own via the mission critical criteria, that is going to lead to a sad life of owning crap. The point you're missing and willfully so since it doesn't support this particular agenda, is the care, thought and quality of materials that go into the Rigid light bar are the same as went into that quality pitman arm puller. Remember that piece of shit fairlead with 15 cents worth of anodizing versus the 8 bucks I pay for mine? That little detail doesn't affect the function and is not the tiniest bit mission critical to the function of the fairlead. Yet, you are thrilled by the fact that it stays the same color as the day you installed it the same as I am and I pay orders of magnitude more to make that happen than they did on the one you removed. The gent with the 10 dollar fairlead that gets him unstuck the same as yours will thinks we are fully silly for spending that much to ensure something as unnecessary as the non fading finish especially when it drives the price up almost as much as his version costs.

You, I, We, et al pay more when you care and it matters. Fortunately neither of us is in charge of what that is so we should let others have what they want without a fucking sermon about how stupid that is.

Are you going to keep making me explain why your diesel radiator outlasts the one in your TJ or are you going accept that radiators in general don't like to operate at that pressure? If the one in your diesel operated at the same pressures, it would last just as long, or short, depending on your perspective.

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly my thought process when I saw that on the website. Totally agree with this

Should we discuss 40 dollar white rockets?

 

[machoheadgames]

"More Expensive" is one thing, 10X the price for little to no difference in capability or even appearance is another.

Have you ever side-by-side compared a $700 light bar to a $70 light bar?

 

[Zorba]

Are you going to keep making me explain why your diesel radiator outlasts the one in your TJ or are you going accept that radiators in general don't like to operate at that pressure? If the one in your diesel operated at the same pressures, it would last just as long, or short, depending on your perspective.

I accept your explanation about the diesel radiator. I still hold that its completely possible to build a radiator that will last for the TJ. It wouldn't look like the one that's in it - or in my diesel for that matter, obviously.

 

[BlueC]

I'd be willing to pay 10X for a goddamned decent TJ radiator "next time" if I knew the stupid thing would hold up.

10x your say. Looks like I might have to sell an NOS radiator, but I can't take less than 12x.

 

[mrblaine]

I accept your explanation about the diesel radiator. I still hold that its completely possible to build a radiator that will last for the TJ. It wouldn't look like the one that's in it - or in my diesel for that matter, obviously.

Need to get Joe in here and pick his brain on that one. I suspect the limitations on all the things that make a radiator work will also severely complicate the final design and ultimately the efficiency of the cooling abilities.

If you bump up the tube wall thickness to increase the pressure handling ability, it will take longer for the heat tranfer to get to the fins. If you add more fins to help overcome that, you restrict the air flow through the core and knock any gains back down to below what would be gained by adding more fins.

Since I don't see many issues with the actual cores on the TJ radiator, I suspect it may be very possible to just make a better tank for each end. I don't know that anyone would pay for it but a nicely stamped aluminum tank with welded water necks would be where I would start. The o-ring seal would have to be improved and someone a lot smarter than me will have to figure that one out.

What we need is a furnace brazed copper core and then some very robust brass tanks. I suspect we could deal with soldering the tank to the core if we could get rid of the solder in the tube to fin interface.

 

[Zorba]

10x your say. Looks like I might have to sell an NOS radiator, but I can't take less than 12x.

Too bad the NOS is crap.

 

[mrblaine]

Too bad the NOS is crap.

Are we going to keep doing this? It is not crap, it is well known and documented to last in a perfectly functional condition well past 100,000 miles. You can't buy a better one for the TJ. You can buy different ones, you can buy cheaper ones, you can buy more expensive ones, but you can't buy a better one that lasts as long.

 

[NDSpeed]

Fun Fact: moose eyes do not reflect light.

so when i see a mall crawler down here in Colorado, running the chinese light bars that cost $70 in the streets of Denver. i don’t care.

but i would never use that to illuminate the parks highway in the middle of winter, that’s why i have a baja designs on my F350

 

[BradyW]

My dad ordered a full Midarm kit when they were "in-stock" a few weeks back. We have received everything besides the frame brackets and axle trusses. Got word that these parts are not done at the fabricators. A bit of a let down they claimed it was in-stock when it really wasn't.

On the bright side, Gerald seems to be on the ball with communication when you have a chunk of money tied up with him. He's been quick to respond and provide updates.

It sounds like your dad will be getting the updated design of the frame brackets and/or? axle trusses. Gerald let me know that only the new designs will be shipping moving forward if you haven't already received them. I placed my order after your dad so I'll be in the first batch of the new design of the mid-arm kit as well.

 

[Apparition]

It sounds like your dad will be getting the updated design of the frame brackets and/or? axle trusses. Gerald let me know that only the new designs will be shipping moving forward if you haven't already received them. I placed my order after your dad so I'll be in the first batch of the new design of the mid-arm kit as well.

Do you even know what you bought?

 

[PNW_LJ]

It sounds like your dad will be getting the updated design of the frame brackets and/or? axle trusses. Gerald let me know that only the new designs will be shipping moving forward if you haven't already received them. I placed my order after your dad so I'll be in the first batch of the new design of the mid-arm kit as well.

Post up pics when you receive it.

First time I’ve hearing of this, so apparently mine was in the very last of the “old design”.

 

[sunnysideup_lj]

It sounds like your dad will be getting the updated design of the frame brackets and/or? axle trusses. Gerald let me know that only the new designs will be shipping moving forward if you haven't already received them. I placed my order after your dad so I'll be in the first batch of the new design of the mid-arm kit as well.

I'm guessing they will be the "new" batch since they have not shipped (his was order 4/24). any ideas what changed?