School me on mid-arm vs long-arm
- Thread starter Rock Toy
- Start date
Wow, thanks for sharing that. That's a great reference resource for us engineer types
jesseshoots
TJ Enthusiast
Wow, thanks for sharing that. That's a great reference resource for us engineer types
Any time! I came across it years ago when designing some track bar brackets and wanted to understand the effects of moving the track bar up to recenter the axle (assuming non-adj track bar). I've learned lots from it since then.
stick around an learn a little...........the razzin is to try and bait you into figuring this out for yourself.
getting handed an answer is not learning or understanding.
if that's what you desire pay someone to do it, your wasting your time asking what you really don't need or wanna know.......
if you want to understand why and be able to explain why then stick around a while.
that pic of the link mount has dimensions plug them in. whats the minimum separation provide for AS/AD and IC then mid, then top? which 1's best n why? could it be better how/why?
what kind of #'s can you generate extending the links back in the relationship they are now? where do they end up?
1 more time............basic suspension guidelines.
start with wheel size/rolling radius. how much link separation does that wheel dictate to control that axle.
are you gonna change that or accept the compromise of the OE brackets if any?
whats the recommended angle for the lower arm to connect back to the frame?
how much separation at the frame do you need to control the axle the way you desire?
where on the frame is the spot that you can plant the dimensions you want/need?
getting handed an answer is not learning or understanding.
if that's what you desire pay someone to do it, your wasting your time asking what you really don't need or wanna know.......
if you want to understand why and be able to explain why then stick around a while.
that pic of the link mount has dimensions plug them in. whats the minimum separation provide for AS/AD and IC then mid, then top? which 1's best n why? could it be better how/why?
what kind of #'s can you generate extending the links back in the relationship they are now? where do they end up?
1 more time............basic suspension guidelines.
start with wheel size/rolling radius. how much link separation does that wheel dictate to control that axle.
are you gonna change that or accept the compromise of the OE brackets if any?
whats the recommended angle for the lower arm to connect back to the frame?
how much separation at the frame do you need to control the axle the way you desire?
where on the frame is the spot that you can plant the dimensions you want/need?
Quite a bit of vertical separation. The Ballistics piece does not require a body lift to fit. I haven't seen another bracket kit other than Savvy that requires a body lift.
How much vertical separation does the savvy kit have? How much do you need? How much bump stop is needed in the rear as a result? Is that the only problem you see with the ballistic brackets?
how much separation did the factory give you?
is there a reason to deviate from that?
if you take 1 them thar body lifty thingys and get you some space upinair. yunsall might just could figure out some plantin spot for some them thar control sticks.
why yall wanna sqwuzz um up in the belly fer.
strech em er twigs out bout long as they go n fit like they does now.
i wanted to PM people so bad about the Savvy sys but i'd feel like a POS stealin what wasn't mine and gettin others to help me do it. i did my best to figure out a similar design with breadcrumbs and a couple pics. more of an am i on the right path here than an attempt to copy.
is there a reason to deviate from that?
if you take 1 them thar body lifty thingys and get you some space upinair. yunsall might just could figure out some plantin spot for some them thar control sticks.
why yall wanna sqwuzz um up in the belly fer.
strech em er twigs out bout long as they go n fit like they does now.
i wanted to PM people so bad about the Savvy sys but i'd feel like a POS stealin what wasn't mine and gettin others to help me do it. i did my best to figure out a similar design with breadcrumbs and a couple pics. more of an am i on the right path here than an attempt to copy.
I wonder if that's what happened to my LJ. The previous owner said he replaced the front springs to compensate for the aftermarket steel bumper and winch he put on and it currently rides exactly like you described.
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Springs with spacers? How thick? Thinking back on the original post, I wondered if the spacer was thick enough to create coil bind.
exactly. A small speed bump or seam in a concrete bridge it rides nice and smooth. As in no harsh jarring events. A bump that only effects one tire at a time, like a raised manhole cover, shallow depression in asphalt, and the jeep lurches and bounces. Even crossing a 4 way intersection with a lot of crown causes unpleasant motion. Its smooth, but totally sucks to drive.
Meaning that you are confident that while the ride height didn't change, the shocks still had their previous amount of up travel?
i misjudged the height of my TB bracket when i put my rear axle together.
when i went over uneven things as you describe. i could feel the rear end shift back n forth this also felt like lurching but side to side.
it was especially evident going over a set of RR tracks at an angle 1 wheel b4 the other. the whole tail would jerk n wiggle.
is this possible in your instance or not the same?
when i went over uneven things as you describe. i could feel the rear end shift back n forth this also felt like lurching but side to side.
it was especially evident going over a set of RR tracks at an angle 1 wheel b4 the other. the whole tail would jerk n wiggle.
is this possible in your instance or not the same?
It is totally possible it's related. The TJ tail wiggle is notorious. It's a trackbar thing, and I do have a 3 link midarm rear suspension. What I perceived was a different feeling, but I totally accept that I could have perceived it because I was looking for it. It wasn't a shock thing, or a travel bias thing. The only factor I changed was rear spring rate. hieght and travel stayed consistent. I didn't drive hard enough to get near the bump stops much less stack height. I will say that the difference was not night and day, it was subtle but present. Maybe some people wouldn't even notice... my wife didn't.
The only reason I mentioned it was than brianj5600, a few pages back, said his rig rode better after changing to matched savvy springs and like normal, everyone dismissed him as an idiot because "spring rate has no effect on ride quality". I offered a possible explanation that maybe, just maybe Savvy springs do actually ride better than a cheap mismatched set of random springs because the engineers that selected the spring rate knew what the fuck they were doing.
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I've experienced that same feeling...kinda like the jeep is pivoting in the middle of the body over a bump. Def not going on the bumpstops or solid stacking the spring. Its never happened in mine, but rather one I test drove before I bought mine. I offered the lady considerably less than she was asking because I knew it wasn't right, but I also didn't know what was wrong. It wasn't bumpsteer, I know that.
She turned me down, saying Her, "Mechanic said it was fine, its just a lifted jeep and they all drive like that." I politely disagreed with her, suggested she find a new mechanic, and told her to call me if she re-considered my offer.
Kinda curious what was wrong with it...it was on 33's with about 3" of lift.
Ok...take me to school. Been reading and researching, but I either haven't gotten this far in, or its much more difficult to find answers to my questions below.
- what is my wheel size? -> I'm going to build around a 35" tire. Call it 17" rolling radius.
- how much link separation at the axle do you need -> by the rule of thumb (25% of Diameter). I'm going to go one further...my rolling radius is 17, so my effective diameter is 34. 25% of 34 is 7 inches of separation at the axle.
- do I change or accept factory brackets -> I'm planning on redrilling lowers and extending uppers
- recommended angle for LCA to connect to frame -> this is where I start to get foggy...I think its less than 10 degrees...or as flat as possible. I guess I need to rear more. This one isn't as easy to ferret out.
- how much frame separation is required at the frame-> now I'm completely in the dark. I know there needs to be separation. I also see that it makes a DRAMATIC difference in the AS and IC numbers from the calculator, but I don't know if there is a rule of thumb? I also know from reading that this seperation will affect the force in the arms and axle brackets. How much, and in which direction, I'm still trying to wrap my head around.
- where can it go on the frame -> I haven't gotten this far yet, because I'm still working on understanding the previous two points.