Shock advice

[mrblaine]

I’m always surprised when people state spring rates don’t matter.
Fact is if they didn’t matter, the weight of your Jeep wouldn’t matter and neither would your wheel/tire weight and suspension setup. TJ rates on the attached link vary from 130 to 240 and all of those rates will provide a different level of performance. Then you’ve got to factor in your shocks, because if you plan traveling long distances at speed on washboard dirt roads and trails, you’ll soon melt the seals on rancho 5000x.

The bottomline is each owner must first determine what their primary use will be, if it’s highway use, putting around trails and crawling slower areas, then rancho is fine paired with the right springs. If not then you’d be better off investing in springs and properly valved shocks specifically setup for your rig.

https://wranglertjforum.com/attachments/tj-shock-spring-specifications-xlsx.547294/

If you care to learn a bit, a spring has a job to do within a few parameters for what we need.
1- holds the weight at design ride height. Seems obvious.
2- has enough free height to exert a small bit of force at full shock extension so the springs will stay in the mounts.
3- has few enough coils to stay out of coil bind, has enough coils so they don't fatigue and fail prematurely.

Once you get a spring to fit within those rules, then the rate really doesn't matter since the rate for ALL the springs that can do that job will be within a scant few points of each other with regard to rate.

 

[mrblaine]

No , I have not driven it without shocks .
Yes , the OME lift springs increase the ride height by approximately 2 inches .

When examining the springs , the OME are thicker and harder to compress therefore making them stiffer .

I have run the stock rear springs with 1 inch spacers for 11 years without the pothole jarring produced after installing the OME springs . The Black Max shocks did not help with the teeth rattling on the potholes or washboard type roads , but overall theride and handling is pretty good . I am going to reinstall my factory rear springs today with 2 inch spacers and test the ride to see if it improves .

Before you do anything, document how much shock shaft is showing at ride height. Balance that against the amount of total travel the shocks have. A simple spring swap with all other things being equal has no effect on ride quality. If you think it does, then simply pull the shocks and before you pull the springs for the swap, take it for a short drive. It won't hurt anything to expand your understanding of how this works and you're going to be doing that part of it anyway, just stop part way through and add to your knowledge.

 

[06TJ35's]

Is there a thread with the shim stacks one may have for their jeep?

 

[jjvw]

Is there a thread with the shim stacks one may have for their jeep?

No one of consequence is going to openly publish their valvings. The best you will get are discussions of the concepts behind various types of shim stacks.

 

[mrblaine]

Is there a thread with the shim stacks one may have for their jeep?

Here is your chance to be a hero. Buy a set of tuned shocks, take them apart, measure the stack and post it up for all to use. Along with being a hero, you also get to field all the bullshit from folks who used your assistance and discovered it doesn't work for them due to any of a 100 different reasons including but not limited to, axle weights, tire weight, wheelbase, driver perceptions, rig weight and bias, and terrain.

 

[Rickyd]

His build thread is already that. And it won't make a difference even the way you describe. Having been here while and watched things, quite a few people simply come here for validation/reinforcement and when you question their incorrect beliefs they have a hard time accepting they are/were or even just could be wrong.

Unfortunately most people are that way. Just go to any of the retarded Facebook automotive groups.

Jj has a great build. Its just so long the unwashed masses aren't going to wade through it looking for somebody to hand them the magic part numbers for whatever their dilemma is.

We should have how to's for every one of these recurring questions. Don't know what shocks you need? BLAM, post the how to. Like the ones we have for lifting on 35's etc.

So many people get run off by dropping logic bombs on them. Posting a link and letting them work it out on their own is easier on the ego

 

[psrivats]

Is there a thread with the shim stacks one may have for their jeep?

Such a thread will not have much use other than generate chatter over stack options and what one person thinks as good vs another. It will be just like the 1000 shock threads we have already and people discussing subjective things with mostly poor and unclear language. There are many many things that affect the ride quality and also the perception of good ride quality. Unless you actually modify and test, there is simply just NO way to actually know what is "good" or "bad". It will be like going with Yelp reviews for food, you can gather some generic trends but your taste preferences are unique to you and what I think as good maybe garbage for you.

There are many many online resources if you want to read and learn the basics (see all the subsequent links on top right side). One of them is below. There is math involved and physics as should be.
https://valvinglogic.com/suspInfo/vi_valveInfo001.php?rn=rnbb

The good tuners have crafted their knowledge and wisdom from repeated and repeated testing and refining their understanding over time. It's unfair to ask that to be shared publicly .. it's their own intellectual property. And the tunes you get from good tuners will be pretty specific to your setup anyways.

Best thing you can do is to identify who is a good tuner and trust their knowledge and judgement. Note that tuners are also human and will have biases/preferences and their own philosophies on what is good. It's taking a leap of faith, but if you select the right person, it will be a good and meaningful leap. Sometimes you learn only by selecting wrong with whatever little you know and then realizing your selection did not deliver what you wanted.

There are few folks on this board that have decided to learn the art of tuning and invested in the equipment (and the time/energy for testing and updating). You can go that direction if your interests and budget allow.

 

[Harold&Cat]

Before you do anything, document how much shock shaft is showing at ride height. Balance that against the amount of total travel the shocks have. A simple spring swap with all other things being equal has no effect on ride quality. If you think it does, then simply pull the shocks and before you pull the springs for the swap, take it for a short drive. It won't hurt anything to expand your understanding of how this works and you're going to be doing that part of it anyway, just stop part way through and add to your knowledge.

Unfortunately I had already swapped the springs out before reading this . I took it for a drive down the same roads that I traveled yesterday and it seems smoother to me . It didn't jar as much and it definitely doesn't rattle the tailgate like it did . The only thing I changed was the springs and added the 2 inch spacers to maintain the ride height . For whatever reason , my Jeep seems to like the stock springs over the OME springs that I have .

 

[06TJ35's]

Here is your chance to be a hero. Buy a set of tuned shocks, take them apart, measure the stack and post it up for all to use. Along with being a hero, you also get to field all the bullshit from folks who used your assistance and discovered it doesn't work for them due to any of a 100 different reasons including but not limited to, axle weights, tire weight, wheelbase, driver perceptions, rig weight and bias, and terrain.

I have no time for people's BS. Some people can't understand suggestions. I've been there and done that; no thanks.

Such a thread will not have much use other than generate chatter over stack options and what one person thinks as good vs another. It will be just like the 1000 shock threads we have already and people discussing subjective things with mostly poor and unclear language. There are many many things that affect the ride quality and also the perception of good ride quality. Unless you actually modify and test, there is simply just NO way to actually know what is "good" or "bad". It will be like going with Yelp reviews for food, you can gather some generic trends but your taste preferences are unique to you and what I think as good maybe garbage for you.

There are many many online resources if you want to read and learn the basics (see all the subsequent links on top right side). One of them is below. There is math involved and physics as should be.
https://valvinglogic.com/suspInfo/vi_valveInfo001.php?rn=rnbb

The good tuners have crafted their knowledge and wisdom from repeated and repeated testing and refining their understanding over time. It's unfair to ask that to be shared publicly .. it's their own intellectual property. And the tunes you get from good tuners will be pretty specific to your setup anyways.

Best thing you can do is to identify who is a good tuner and trust their knowledge and judgement. Note that tuners are also human and will have biases/preferences and their own philosophies on what is good. It's taking a leap of faith, but if you select the right person, it will be a good and meaningful leap. Sometimes you learn only by selecting wrong with whatever little you know and then realizing your selection did not deliver what you wanted.

There are few folks on this board that have decided to learn the art of tuning and invested in the equipment (and the time/energy for testing and updating). You can go that direction if your interests and budget allow.

Fortunately, I have the tools to rebuild shocks and have rebuilt many before but just rebuild. I don't understand tuning enough yet, though.
I can get Fox's at wholesale pricing; I just don't have the time to pull off shocks, test, etc. You know the deal. The time I'll save on buying pre-tuned shocks will be worth it, and it won't be the end of the world if I need to retune.

People's perceptions of how they want their vehicle to feel are crazy, and often, they will be upset if it's not the ride they expect.

 

[jjvw]

Unfortunately I had already swapped the springs out before reading this . I took it for a drive down the same roads that I traveled yesterday and it seems smoother to me . It didn't jar as much and it definitely doesn't rattle the tailgate like it did . The only thing I changed was the springs and added the 2 inch spacers to maintain the ride height . For whatever reason , my Jeep seems to like the stock springs over the OME springs that I have .

You changed the shocks. Think that through.

 

[Harold&Cat]

You changed the shocks. Think that through.

No , same shocks and same ride height . That's where the 2 inch spacers come into play .

 

[psrivats]

I just don't have the time to pull off shocks, test, etc. You know the deal. The time I'll save on buying pre-tuned shocks will be worth it, and it won't be the end of the world if I need to retune.

So why do you need other people's shim stacks at all?

 

[06TJ35's]

So why do you need other people's shim stacks at all?

Save money by purchasing non-tuned Foxes at wholesale prices, and save time by determining which shim stack will best match my setup, fully understanding that it may not be correct.

 

[psrivats]

Save money by purchasing non-tuned Foxes at wholesale prices, and save time by determining which shim stack will best match my setup, fully understanding that it may not be correct.

Wouldn't it be better to spend the time learning and testing things systematically than trial and error from random people's shim stacks and hoping for luck that you somehow find a good working base? You might as well start with something from say Accutune or one of the many other places that offer tuned shocks, no?

You seem to place more value in forum discussion of people's opinions of their stacks than whatever you can learn from your own testing unless I'm understanding incorrectly.

 

[06TJ35's]

Wouldn't it be better to spend the time learning and testing things systematically than trial and error from random people's shim stacks and hoping for luck that you somehow find a good working base? You might as well start with something from say Accutune or one of the many other places that offer tuned shocks, no?

You seem to place more value in forum discussion of people's opinions of their stacks than whatever you can learn from your own testing unless I'm understanding incorrectly.

It's always better to spend time and learn. I'm sure there is someone with almost the same setup as me with tuned Fox 2.0. I mean a lot of us run 4" Currie kits, savvy front bumpers, and warn winches. I can get a baseline from the shim stacks and go from there.

I did say buying pre-tuned shocks will be worth it, and I'm almost positive people have bought pre-tuned shocks to only dislike them. It goes the same way with buying off-the-shelf fox. I'm sure people have bought them and loved them.

 

[mrblaine]

It's always better to spend time and learn. I'm sure there is someone with almost the same setup as me with tuned Fox 2.0. I mean a lot of us run 4" Currie kits, savvy front bumpers, and warn winches. I can get a baseline from the shim stacks and go from there.

I did say buying pre-tuned shocks will be worth it, and I'm almost positive people have bought pre-tuned shocks to only dislike them. It goes the same way with buying off-the-shelf fox. I'm sure people have bought them and loved them.

Most of it depends on what you call "pre-tuned". If you and I have a conversation and then I see a few pics of how your rig is set up and what you plan to do with it, I can translate that into something pretty tolerable with my tuner. At most, a few minor changes would be all that is needed should we miss the mark by very far. It is always easier when you can say what you DON'T like about a tune.

If you buy off the shelf "pre-tuned" shocks, they will generally be awesome or miserable with very little inbetween.

 

[06TJ35's]

Most of it depends on what you call "pre-tuned". If you and I have a conversation and then I see a few pics of how your rig is set up and what you plan to do with it, I can translate that into something pretty tolerable with my tuner. At most, a few minor changes would be all that is needed should we miss the mark by very far. It is always easier when you can say what you DON'T like about a tune.

If you buy off the shelf "pre-tuned" shocks, they will generally be awesome or miserable with very little inbetween.

I agree that when talking about shocks, it's great to say what you dislike about your current shocks. If one says it is too "floaty" or" feels like a boat," then a tuner would know exactly what to do.

Hit or miss. That's what we subjective ourselves by doing modification. People need to understand that it may not always be correct.

 

[mrblaine]

I agree that when talking about shocks, it's great to say what you dislike about your current shocks. If one says it is too "floaty" or" feels like a boat," then a tuner would know exactly what to do.

Depends, it is floaty in turns because the flutter fulcrum is too small, or is it floaty because the compression is too soft?

Hit or miss. That's what we subjective ourselves by doing modification. People need to understand that it may not always be correct.

We hit far more than we miss. Even if we do miss, it isn't by much.

 

[Gasman1979]

Well. I didn’t intend to start quit the shit show this turned into .

I bought two rear Rancho RS5000x today and installed. Oh my sweet baby Jesus. The ride is night and day. It doesn’t jar the shit outta me or toss me all over the cab ! I can tell the front is significantly stiffer than the rear now as well. I’ll be buying the fronts tomorrow and finishing the job.

I also after the test ride let the air in the asshole 20” E series tires from 28 to 20. That made a noticeable difference as well.

Thanks to everyone who injected good information. It was appreciated and did help in my final decision. $180 for the rears. So around d $360 for the set. Well worth it.

 

['05Train]

You didn't want to spend 50$ per shock for tuning but you'd waste money on fox stickers?

I got the pair for what a single Accutune shock would have run. DGAF about the stickers.