Shooting at Westgate in Glendale, AZ

Apparition said:
Good question, look at the major shootings that make the news and then ask yourself that question.
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Thats exactly why i ask, if the background check were more effective you could not walk out of the store with a weapon the very same day. It doesn't allow any time to check if the person is a responsible owner or a nutjob with record.
I think everyone would agree that no one with a psychiatric disorder history (schitzofrenic, Psychopath, etc.) or a criminal record( murdered, rapist, etc) should own a weapon.
 
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Jramos013 said:
Thats exactly why i ask, if the background check were more effective you could not walk out of the store with a weapon the very same day. It doesn't allow any time to check if the person is a responsible owner or a nutjob with record.
I think everyone would agree that no one with a psychiatric disorder history (schitzofrenic, Psychopath, etc.) or a criminal record( murdered, rapist, etc) should own a weapon.
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The point is nearly all of them passed background checks or came to their guns via criminal methods such as killing their mom and taking her guns.

Most of these people had no history that would or should keep them from buying a gun.

I’m not a fan of punishing innocents and these people were for the most part innocent until they weren’t.
 
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Rubi04 said:
You didn’t have to mention the 2nd amendment.

This quote said all it needed.

(YOU) I have a bolt-action .308 for hunting, a pump 12ga for birds, a lever action .22 for my nephew, and a handgun for carry. I used to have an H&K .40, but I cut it in half with a grinder in 2018 on principle and bought a revolver.(YOU)

Hunting. You cut up a gun on principal.


Your words say enough that you think of anyone owns a semi auto or wants it for purposes other than hunting or if your revolver doesn’t get it done, says enough.



So you are saying you want to limit the number of guns I can own (what does this do exactly), the types I own (again, I only need a bolt action, a pump, a .22 and a revolver to exist?) and you talk about the government and what a straw man that your version or what you perceive as tyranny? We may not have the same views on what you voted for or what you believe in. BUT, you can live your life how you see fit and I’ll live mine.


You don’t see me telling you to limit your interests. Or constitutional rights. Nor will I. I won’t tell you you need to stand up for your rights. Or exercise them. Own things you view as “bad”. You do you.

Just step up or step out of the way. We fought a revolutionary war where only 3% of the population fought.

That’s fine.

We also had a civil war where Americans fought each other over ideals as well.


Point is, if I want 20 Ar15’s I will own them. I’ll arm my neighbors, my friends, anyone who wants to help if the time comes. I love, and I live in a country that allows this. I will stand up for it as I have in the past and will always stand up for it in the future.
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I think we might be long lost brothers.
 
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Apparition said:
The point is nearly all of them passed background checks or came to their guns via criminal methods such as killing their mom and taking her guns.

Most of these people had no history that would or should keep them from buying a gun.

I’m not a fan of punishing innocents and these people were for the most part innocent until they weren’t.
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IMO if someone have been convicted for a murder, rape, or something like that and proven guilty, the same way liberty is taken away from them, their gun right should be taken away too.

I would not give a weapon to someone willing to act on “inner voices” to shoot up a mall either. Traits from mental health problems could be found quickly with a mental health professional.

If someone with a criminal record or mental illness passes a background check and walks away with a weapon that same day, the check was not effective at all. Hence my original question, whats the point of it of everyone will pass it regardless of their history?

Banning any type weapons is just as stupid as selling them without any real background investigation. A crazy guy with no history will always be a threat, but a threat that could be minimized with a proper investigation.
 
Jramos013 said:
IMO if someone have been convicted for a murder, rape, or something like that and proven guilty, the same way liberty is taken away from them, their gun right should be taken away too.

I would not give a weapon to someone willing to act on “inner voices” to shoot up a mall either. Traits from mental health problems could be found quickly with a mental health professional.

If someone with a criminal record or mental illness passes a background check and walks away with a weapon that same day, the check was not effective at all. Hence my original question, whats the point of it of everyone will pass it regardless of their history?

Banning any type weapons is just as stupid as selling them without any real background investigation. A crazy guy with no history will always be a threat, but a threat that could be minimized with a proper investigation.
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Many of these people have no prior history. There is no way or reason to prematurely take away their rights.

I think felons should have their rights restored upon completion of their sentences also.
 
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Apparition said:
Many of these people have no prior history. There is no way or reason to prematurely take away their rights.

I think felons should have their rights restored upon completion of their sentences also.
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Regulating firearms sales is not the same as taking someones right. If theres nothing on someone's record, they are good to go. But how would you know if the person walk away with the weapon the same day without a proper check.

Just like a car, you need a permit to drive one. Everyone can drive a car if they pass the test. But if someone starts running over people or doing stupid shit, their license is taken away.
 
Jramos013 said:
Regulating firearms sales is not the same as taking someones right. If theres nothing on someone's record, they are good to go. But how would you know if the person walk away with the weapon the same day without a proper check.

Just like a car, you need a permit to drive one. Everyone can drive a car if they pass the test. But if someone starts running over people or doing stupid shit, their license is taken away.
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what kind of background check are you proposing to make you happy?
 
Apparition said:
what kind of background check are you proposing to make you happy?
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Criminal background check and mental health test prior taking the weapon with you. If all clears, get a Javelin system if you want to.

Tranz Zam said:
Driving a vehicle is a privilege, not a right. Owning a firearm is a right, not a privilege.
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Liberty is also a right and you loose it if you do stupid shit.
 
Jramos013 said:
Liberty is also a right and you loose it if you do stupid shit.
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And you should, if you do something stupid. However, there shouldn't be someone ordering/completing mental health evaluations before allowing Americans to exercise their rights. You know damn well that would be abused to no end, especially if they put someone who is anti firearm in charge.

Americans are free to do as they please, and own as many firearms as their bank account will allow. In my case, I'm currently building 3 more ARs to add to the collection. I'm sure you probably have an issue with that though, dont you?
 
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Jramos013 said:
Criminal background check and mental health test prior taking the weapon with you. If all clears, get a Javelin system if you want to.



Liberty is also a right and you loose it if you do stupid shit.
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So you don’t think people should have a right to medical privacy?
 
Tranz Zam said:
And you should, if you do something stupid. However, there shouldn't be someone ordering/completing mental health evaluations before allowing Americans to exercise their rights. You know damn well that would be abused to no end, especially if they put someone who is anti firearm in charge.

Americans are free to do as they please, and own as many firearms as their bank account will allow. In my case, I'm currently building 3 more ARs to add to the collection. I'm sure you probably have an issue with that though, dont you?
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I do agree with the first part of your statement, if they put someone thats anti-weapons it probably would abused. But something can be done that involves Different groups with different positions regarding the issue. I firmly believe most of these shooting are a result of poor mental health and lack of education.

And no, Im a U.S. Army vet I love weapons. All us citizens can have as many weapons as they want, as long as they are in responsable hands, not convicted criminals or crazy ones. If i had the money i would love to own a working sherman tank........


Apparition said:
So you don’t think people should have a right to medical privacy?
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I don’t see anything wrong with being evaluated to make sure that you are sane enough to own a weapon.
 
Jramos013 said:
I do agree with the first part of your statement, if they put someone thats anti-weapons it probably would abused. But something can be done that involves Different groups with different positions regarding the issue. I firmly believe most of these shooting are a result of poor mental health and lack of education.

And no, Im a U.S. Army vet I love weapons. All us citizens can have as many weapons as they want, as long as they are in responsable hands, not convicted criminals or crazy ones. If i had the money i would love to own a working sherman tank........




I don’t see anything wrong with being evaluated to make sure that you are sane enough to own a weapon.
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What traits do you look for to determine that you aren’t sane enough?

How frequently should people be retested to confirm they can keep their stuff?
 
Apparition said:
What traits do you look for to determine that you aren’t sane enough?

How frequently should people be retested to confirm they can keep their stuff?
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Personally im no doctor, but you could look up the DSM-5 for reference on certain conditions traits. As for frequency i honestly dunno, that would be up to someone that has a more profound knowledge on mental health.
 
Jramos013 said:
Personally im no doctor, but you could look up the DSM-5 for reference on certain conditions traits. As for frequency i honestly dunno, that would be up to someone that has a more profound knowledge on mental health.
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Ok, now consider this

"Most of the research shows that people with mental illness are actually less likely than the general population to go on to shoot somebody else or to commit mass violence," said Dr. Jonathan Metzl, a psychiatrist and director of the Center for Medicine, Health, and Society at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee. "To be honest, it's quite frustrating as a psychiatrist to have this kind of false narrative be perpetuated because it's a distraction from the story we should be telling."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/why-mental-illness-cant-predict-mass-shootings
 
Here is another citizen that passed a back ground check so he could get his firearm. The online news forgot to mention the some of the previous arrests had weapons involved.

A 20-year-old Springfield man is being held in lieu of $100,000 cash bail after he was arrested Friday with a large capacity handgun and 650 bags of heroin.

Springfield Police spokesperson Ryan Walsh said in a release that Kenen Monsanto-Maldonado was out on bail when he was arrested after a short chase. He had been arrested five times by Springfield police, including two heroin trafficking arrests in 2019 involving over 4,000 bags of heroin.
 
The 2nd amendment had not mentioned about a background check prior to bear arms.

The fact is background check will not prevent someone to shoot and hurt others.

The consequences of how you exercise that right (freedom) is up to you.
 
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