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Should have just spent the money on a nicer pair of doors

sab

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most are just hangers and not load bearing. if the clamps not got enough surface grip leaning on the door could make it slip, no?

IDK i'm just tossin ideas..........for all i know those could be some sort of insert in there now.

actually it looks like a smaller punch with a big base die allowing some push down and coning b4 it breaks the bottom out.........i might could do that at work.

The clamping force is solely generated by the amount of torque on the screws, so the force is the same whether contact is across the entire plate or isolated to the nutsert face. What ends up holding the mirror in place is then friction created by that clamping force, and friction is mostly independent of contact area. I say mostly because when the contact area becomes very, very small, the frictional force can actually increase a bit because embedment can occur (one piece digs into the other because the contact stress exceeds the material strength.)
 
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Vtx531

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The clamping force is solely generated by the amount of torque on the screws, so the force is the same whether contact is across the entire plate or isolated to the nutsert face. What ends up holding the mirror in place is then friction created by that clamping force, and friction is mostly independent of contact area. I say mostly because when the contact area becomes very, very small, the frictional force can actually increase a bit because embedment can occur (one piece digs into the other because the contact stress exceeds the material strength.)

I was going to post similar. Almost all of the stress is concentrated right around the bolt. Washer size (plate) doesn't really make a difference.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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The clamping force is solely generated by the amount of torque on the screws, so the force is the same whether contact is across the entire plate or isolated to the nutsert face. What ends up holding the mirror in place is then friction created by that clamping force, and friction is mostly independent of contact area. I say mostly because when the contact area becomes very, very small, the frictional force can actually increase a bit because embedment can occur (one piece digs into the other because the contact stress exceeds the material strength.)

I think you're right when it comes to clamping force, but what about deformation of the sheetmetal being clamped? I would think having the load fully spread out along the area of both the hinge and the backing plate would best prevent damage to the door shell.
 

sab

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Yes, there is potential for more deformation of the sheet metal because the load is concentrated. I would expect that to be minimal and, if it's even noticeable, it'd be covered by the mirror base. Ultimately, it's your TJ, not mine. Using nutserts is just one option - I don't know if it's the best one mainly because I've never seen any of the components, other than in your pics. Personally, I think all the ideas suggested (get an OEM plate, weld nuts on a fabbed plate, or install nutserts in a fabbed plate) will work fine, and I'd select the one easiest to do, but you are the one with the parts in hand.
 
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I'm feeling a little better about these.

I only paid $500 for them, including a used smittybilt replacement soft top with a frame (but no door surrounds or tailgate bar) and some soft uppers. I sold the top setup yesterday for $250, and the buyer just happens to own a paintless dent repair business and he offered to take the dings out of my half doors for $50, which while still not perfect will have them at least able to match the rest of the body condition, once painted.

So with the top sold that brings me back to where I'll be about $600 all-in with the PDR, paint and all the little odds and ends I've had to hunt down, which isn't bad considering what nice ones are going for these days.

I've got something going on the hinge plate situation now too, so I'll post up the result once it's all worked out.
 
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I went with the welded nut idea, but I used a flanged nut with the flange turned outward so the backing plate is captured between the door shell and the nut flange. Then I tacked the flanges to the plate. This way, the flange handles most of the clamp load rather than my novice welding skills, and the thickness of the junk hinge I used worked out so the part of the nut that sunk down into the plate was not deep enough to hang out the other side.

PXL_20220627_005756454.jpg


I guess I'll get better with practice, but right now it seems like every new welding project I end up starting from scratch, because either the materials are completely different or it's been months since I picked up the welder.

While I had the welder out, I took the opportunity to learn how much different it is to weld body panels than >1/8". I didn't take before photos, but the upper rear corner had a couple of cracks that I decided to weld up. When I pulled the weather strip back I found a couple more cracks in the interior side,as well as a failed spot weld.


PXL_20220627_010400117.jpg


PXL_20220627_010414560.jpg


PXL_20220627_010420165.jpg



I basically replaced the spot weld with a rosette and that went ok, but the cracks on the inner panel took a while. My Flux core welder was on the "min" voltage setting and with as low of a wire speed as it would run without popping and burning back toward the tip, and I was still burning through if I wasn't moving so fast as to not have any idea or control of what the puddle was doing. I ended up filling it all in with a really long series of short tacks, each separated by a wire brushing so I wasn't welding over slag. I still have no idea what else I could have done to make that easier on myself but I at least learned the next time I weld body panels I'm gonna get a bunch of scrap to practice on.
 

sab

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What size wire were you using? That's a big factor with thin gauge body panel welding. And kudos on the mirror plate - it'll do!

Edited to add: .023" wire is commonly used.
 
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What size wire were you using? That's a big factor with thin gauge body panel welding. And kudos on the mirror plate - it'll do!

Edited to add: .023" wire is commonly used.

I figured that was the case. I don't know if other rollers are available for it but the smallest I have is .030, and I still had .035 in the machine. I've never even used the low voltage setting or a wire speed below 6/10 so I went ahead hoping that would be enough. Apparently not.
 

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What size wire were you using? That's a big factor with thin gauge body panel welding. And kudos on the mirror plate - it'll do!

Edited to add: .023" wire is commonly used.

Can you get .023 in Flux core? I've never seen it. Trying to weld sheet metal with. 035 Flux core is going to end poorly.
 
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sab

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Can you get .023 in Flux core? I've never seen it. Trying to weld sheet metal with. 035 Flux core is going to end poorly.

Good question, and I have no idea. I use gas 99% of the time. I think I used flux core one time because I was outside on a very windy day.

Edited to add: Looks like .023 flux core was available at one time, but not anymore.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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Good question, and I have no idea. I use gas 99% of the time. I think I used flux core one time because I was outside on a very windy day.

Edited to add: Looks like .023 flux core was available at one time, but not anymore.

as soon as the house gets finished and we get moved in, I'm getting a real MIG. Don't know what yet, but I'm getting 230V outlet in the garage specifically for that purpose.

and no more body panels until then, lol.
 

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Good question, and I have no idea. I use gas 99% of the time. I think I used flux core one time because I was outside on a very windy day.

Edited to add: Looks like .023 flux core was available at one time, but not anymore.

023 with gas is the tits for sheet metal
 
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