Should I buy this Ford 8.8 axle?

[mrblaine]

Somewhere recently he posted a pic of the red one in Moab. Said he tried to break the Super 35, but couldn't.

It was on JF in the Super 35 versus 8.8 thread, same shit, different day.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Then what is the purpose of an 8.8? What problem is being addressed by adding one?


Good idea.

A 14 bolt isn't a bad option. What it is also is is a lot of work and expense to make one meet my specifications. On the surface, I would want to rebuild it and replace all seals and wear items. To get better clearance I'd need to shave and find or make a shaved diff cover. I'd need to shorten the tubes and reweld the Cs. By shortening the tubes I'd also need to purchase shorter shafts. I'd need to correctly place TJ brackets. I'd need to have it regeared and a locker installed. I would need to figure out what I wanted for knuckles. I'd need to find brakes for the front and rear that are appropriate sizes for the TJ. If you have a buddy who has a bunch of free parts laying around and he has his own machine shop and he's willing to do the labor for a pack of beer, then sure you can forget about most of what I said. Even after all of that work and additional expense, ground clearance ends up similar and with a much larger patch.

With the RJ60 all of the figuring stuff out was done for me and I was able to get a purpose designed and built axle. Everything was relatively easy and possibly similar cost out the door.

Definitely was only talking about swapping in the rear axle with the 14 bolt as they can be found super cheap (less than $200, built for less than ~$2k) and not much out there, rear axle wise, that is going to be stronger. I dont think Washington has trails that would warrant a 14 bolt front..

 

[Fouledplugs]

W


Ahh okay. So what did you do once you broke the gears?
Upgrade or swap axle assemblies?
What size tire were you running?

I’m running a 35in tire and considering an 8.8 so I can wheel a lot harder.

Stock Dana 35 on 33's on both my brother's Jeep and mine as well.

Once I broke mine, I upgraded to a Dana 44 and my brother, he swapped in an 8.8. That was a long time ago. it was cheaper to swap in a junkyard Dana 44 and a junk yard 8.8 than it was to spend $1500 to upgrade the Dana 35. And of course region wise it was the right move for us.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Thanks, that'll save me some money. Would it be worth it just in case I break an axle? I guess I could look at a C-clip eliminator, but I'm not sure that's really warranted or not.

You could always get some upgraded USA made axles for around $300 for your stock Dana 35. Dutchman Axles are built in the USA using 1541-H material which is claimed to be 25% stronger than stock 1039 material. They can be ordered in stock lengths. You can also order them with 27, 29, or 30 splines in case you want to add a locker. They can be ordered with the stock bolt pattern in mind, or change it to whatever you will need.

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

I have no experience with ECGS, but I've seen so much negativity about the Dana 35, even with a super kit and I do worry slightly about having a bit more torque than factory and then possibly adding a 5:1 ratio on top of that with larger than OEM tires. The one area I'm not too concerned with is the pinion shearing. There's still a pretty good amount of heft with the 3.54/3.55 pinions from what I can tell vs what guys normally use.

I wouldn’t worry about pinion shear.
Pic stolen from fourwheeler.
Dana 35 on left and standard Dana 44 on right.

 

[Westtown Willy]

I would like to add a selectable rear locker and have been staying away, afraid to break my Dana 35. My wheeling is fairly easy, but I work around equipment some as well and dragging stuff around, bumping it, going through ditches, and very occasionally go over small logs/tree trunks in hidden brush and sometimes there's rocks and creeks, but I try to avoid anything that will cause me to walk out as reception sucks and no one is on CB or Ham freqs where I'm at. I will at times do some towing and have my TJ loaded heavily for a TJ, for whatever seems easier at the time.

If you decide to go with the S35 you can sleep well, I routinely run mine a lot harder than that without issue

I'm open to the Super 35 kit, but I do hear a lot of people saying it's a waste.

best guess, those people never ran one &/or don't know what they're talking about, just echoing stories they've repeatedly heard about stock Dana 35 failures & conflating the two as if they're one in the same axle

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

Thought this should be here.
Comparing a Dana 35 shaft to a discontinued superior super 35 shaft.

On the left, stock 27 spline measuring 1.18”
On the right 30 spline measuring 1.31” (Dana 44 size)

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

If you decide to go with the S35 you can sleep well, I routinely run mine a lot harder than that without issue



best guess, those people never ran one &/or don't know what they're talking about, just echoing stories they've repeatedly heard about stock Dana 35 failures & conflating the two as if they're one in the same axle

What locker are you running?
Did you add a truss?

 

[Westtown Willy]

What locker are you running?
Did you add a truss?

I have air lockers but no truss.

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

I have air lockers but no truss.

How long you been wheeling on it?

Thanks for the input! I’m really leaning towards a locker and shaft change in the Dana 35 vs axle swap now.
I think I’m going to run a truss of some type though.
Was reading over some old magazine articles and the writer said they broke a stock 27 spline from axle housing flex, so they added a truss.
I want to cut a Dana 35 tube and get some actual tube measurements.

 

[Westtown Willy]

How long you been wheeling on it?

Thanks for the input! I’m really leaning towards a locker and shaft change in the Dana 35 vs axle swap now.
I think I’m going to run a truss of some type though.
Was reading over some old magazine articles and the writer said they broke a stock 27 spline from axle housing flex, so they added a truss.
I want to cut a Dana 35 tube and get some actual tube measurements.

It was installed Spring of 2017 & since then I put about 7k on it, it’s not a DD rather this has been a chronic phase of wheeling with very little other driving. To date I’ve taken it on 30 trips to the mountains for full days in a designated off road park packed with obstacles of all kinds, dirt roads to bolder climbs & deep mud pits that full cage buggies have difficulty with. Trails I run span easy to difficult & while I avoid anything inappropriate (clearance-wise) for my 3 inches of lift & 33 inch tires, I avoid nothing due to concern over axle strength, I’ve learned what I can/can’t do by trial & error. I was on a bit of a mission, making up for lost time as I got into this later in life. Sometime this summer I felt as though I had sufficiently learned the basics, it’s more cerebral than I initially understood, & I’ve throttled back a bit. My plan for 2019 is to actually wheel it less & drive it on the street more, more of a balance.

My takeaway as related to the issues in this thread is simple, the Super 35 is a beast of an axle provided it’s recognized for what it is & treated according meaning stick with 35 inch or smaller tires & don’t drive like a horse’s ass. I marvel at this TJ more & more as time goes by, and that includes the S35 & its designers for what they accomplished. They solved the Dana 35 ‘problem’.

Incidentally, I also put a Super 30 up front, not sure that’s what it’s called but it’s the same concept, larger diameter 30 spline chromoly shafts with an air locker; by all accounts I’ve read this is vast overkill for 33s & I could have just swapped in 27 spline chromoly shafts or even kept the stock ones & locked it without issue but I was regearing & locking anyway so while the thing was being ripped apart & I figured what the hell, that’s one axle for sure I shouldn’t have to worry about

 

[mrblaine]

It was installed Spring of 2017 & since then I put about 7k on it, it’s not a DD rather this has been a chronic phase of wheeling with very little other driving. To date I’ve taken it on 30 trips to the mountains for full days in a designated off road park packed with obstacles of all kinds, dirt roads to bolder climbs & deep mud pits that full cage buggies have difficulty with. Trails I run span easy to difficult & while I avoid anything inappropriate (clearance-wise) for my 3 inches of lift & 33 inch tires, I avoid nothing due to concern over axle strength, I’ve learned what I can/can’t do by trial & error. I was on a bit of a mission, making up for lost time as I got into this later in life. Sometime this summer I felt as though I had sufficiently learned the basics, it’s more cerebral than I initially understood, & I’ve throttled back a bit. My plan for 2019 is to actually wheel it less & drive it on the street more, more of a balance.

My takeaway as related to the issues in this thread is simple, the Super 35 is a beast of an axle provided it’s recognized for what it is & treated according meaning stick with 35 inch or smaller tires & don’t drive like a horse’s ass. I marvel at this TJ more & more as time goes by, and that includes the S35 & its designers for what they accomplished. They solved the Dana 35 ‘problem’.

Incidentally, I also put a Super 30 up front, not sure that’s what it’s called but it’s the same concept, larger diameter 30 spline chromoly shafts with an air locker; by all accounts I’ve read this is vast overkill for 33s & I could have just swapped in 27 spline chromoly shafts or even kept the stock ones & locked it without issue but I was regearing & locking anyway so while the thing was being ripped apart & I figured what the hell, that’s one axle for sure I shouldn’t have to worry about

Don't regret the Super 30 in the least. We try to get folks to run at least that which will keep the breakage out of the diff area generally. We have issues with the 27 spline stuff if a u-joint breaks or a hub breaks, it is almost certain that the next break will be the inner at the side gear and that's a pain in the ass break. Much better to be able to pull an axle and swap in a good one which can be done very easily.

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

Stock Dana 35 on 33's on both my brother's Jeep and mine as well.

Once I broke mine, I upgraded to a Dana 44 and my brother, he swapped in an 8.8. That was a long time ago. it was cheaper to swap in a junkyard Dana 44 and a junk yard 8.8 than it was to spend $1500 to upgrade the Dana 35. And of course region wise it was the right move for us.

Did y’all have any more breakage once y’all upgraded?
Did you upgrade the 44 at all?
Still running the same axles on 33s today?

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

Don't regret the Super 30 in the least. We try to get folks to run at least that which will keep the breakage out of the diff area generally. We have issues with the 27 spline stuff if a u-joint breaks or a hub breaks, it is almost certain that the next break will be the inner at the side gear and that's a pain in the ass break. Much better to be able to pull an axle and swap in a good one which can be done very easily.

When you say hub. What you mean?


Wish I got a picture last night.
A buddy broke his stock 30 inner at the side gear and it tore up the inner seal. All stock Dana lp 30 with a lockright on 35”s. Broke bumping a ledge about the size of a 33” tire. He limped home and found a Yukon 4340 axles used, he is going to pick up.

 

[Westtown Willy]

Don't regret the Super 30 in the least. We try to get folks to run at least that which will keep the breakage out of the diff area generally. We have issues with the 27 spline stuff if a u-joint breaks or a hub breaks, it is almost certain that the next break will be the inner at the side gear and that's a pain in the ass break. Much better to be able to pull an axle and swap in a good one which can be done very easily.

Re-reading what I wrote I realize it came off that way, that wasn’t my intention; if I had it to do over I’d still go the same route with both axles – the way I saw it then & now is that the S30 kit added an additional $800 to my axle rebuild invoice, in the grand scheme of TJ things a small trade off for big peace of mind…

 

[toximus]

Definitely was only talking about swapping in the rear axle with the 14 bolt as they can be found super cheap (less than $200, built for less than ~$2k) and not much out there, rear axle wise, that is going to be stronger. I dont think Washington has trails that would warrant a 14 bolt front..

Doesn't the same pricing still apply? Just get rid of those front end costs on each.

 

[BugoutJeep]

So to be clear, when choosing kits, do you suggest going to 30 splines on the front and rear?

When I do mine, I'm going to change my gears, so I figure I'll do some kind of super 30 and super 35 kit simultaneously. I will likely go with ARB, though TJM looks good, but I don't think they're an option if you go over 27 spline.

 

[MallCrawlOnTons]

So to be clear, when choosing kits, do you suggest going to 30 splines on the front and rear?

When I do mine, I'm going to change my gears, so I figure I'll do some kind of super 30 and super 35 kit simultaneously. I will likely go with ARB, though TJM looks good, but I don't think they're an option if you go over 27 spline.

Yea 30 spline

 

[Westtown Willy]

So to be clear, when choosing kits, do you suggest going to 30 splines on the front and rear?

When I do mine, I'm going to change my gears, so I figure I'll do some kind of super 30 and super 35 kit simultaneously. I will likely go with ARB, though TJM looks good, but I don't think they're an option if you go over 27 spline.

I’d also suggest the 30 spline, just remember it’s not just a larger spline count it’s a larger diameter shaft as compared to stock. I never heard of TJM lockers but their website (below) says it’s a 30 spline locker, though it also says ratio supported 3.73 and down (not sure if down means lower gearing like a 4.10 or lower number like a 3.07, so if you’re regearing I’d get that straight before considering that locker). Also take a look at the kits from RGA, you've got a lot of lockers to pick from like Detroit, Electronic, Air, maybe OX but I'm not sure. If you definitely want air I think the support for/from ARB would be more comprehensive than TJM, and I base that only on the very high volume of ARBs I see here & on the trail so I’d believe their network is larger.

http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/pr...ck-rear?make=12&model=17&vehicle=72&series=72

https://www.hiredgunoffroad.com/dan...Gx7z8g8_bEWEzkJn-DiiOJmMcMk_ftcYaAlfBEALw_wcB

 

[BugoutJeep]

I’d also suggest the 30 spline, just remember it’s not just a larger spline count it’s a larger diameter shaft as compared to stock. I never heard of TJM lockers but their website (below) says it’s a 30 spline locker, though it also says ratio supported 3.73 and down (not sure if down means lower gearing like a 4.10 or lower number like a 3.07, so if you’re regearing I’d get that straight before considering that locker). Also take a look at the kits from RGA, you've got a lot of lockers to pick from like Detroit, Electronic, Air, maybe OX but I'm not sure. If you definitely want air I think the support for/from ARB would be more comprehensive than TJM, and I base that only on the very high volume of ARBs I see here & on the trail so I’d believe their network is larger.

http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/pr...ck-rear?make=12&model=17&vehicle=72&series=72

https://www.hiredgunoffroad.com/dan...Gx7z8g8_bEWEzkJn-DiiOJmMcMk_ftcYaAlfBEALw_wcB

Well what I like about the TJM, is not having to pull my diff in several years to replace an O-ring. I do really like ARB and I'm more familiar with them. I've got one for my 11.5 AAM axle for my truck. From what I can tell the way the lock/unlock is preferable to some of the pneumatic free designs. I'm not anti-electronic, but it feels like the pneumatic designs would be more robust. I guess I probably should look at the electric ones more though and decide how I feel about the design vs the ARB/TJM.

If TJM will only work with 3.73+ (ie 4.10s or bigger numerically), I may even go 3.73, as it may be nicer when I finally figure out an off-road trailer. But on paper the 3.54s seem like they'd be the sweet spot for my particular setup.

Are there inner axle seals in the Dana 35? Imo I would probably need to replace those about as often as the ARB o-ring, so my worry may be moot. I've never done anything on a 35 or 30 besides change the differential fluid, though I would have expected just outer seals. Of course if it's just a shimmed diff, it's really not that big of a deal to keep those sorted and replace as you removed it. Some of this may be heavily reliant on the O-ring life expectancy.