Simplest Dana 44 rear disc conversion?

Ct_tj said:
I've been there plenty of times, and it does suck. Yes disc brakes are easier to work on, but the drum brakes on a TJ are a long way from rocket science. The point I was trying to make was that ease of replacement shouldn't be a deciding factor in doing a disc conversion. I believe they work better for the serious offroader but for the occasional soft trail and daily driving I think drums will work fine. I'm not trying to sway anybody away from a disc conversion and hurt anybody's business, and I'm sure you get that. From what I've seen you don't seem like the guy to try and sell a big brake kit to somebody that DD's their jeep on 30" tires.
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In my world, ease of replacement is the only reason to convert. What everyone has missed so far in the "what is better offroad" aspect is the t-case and lockers. The front and rear axles are connected through the t-case. The tires are connected side to side through the lockers. Locked in 4wd, you can take the rear brakes off and throw them away. The fronts will lock all 4. Not that you should but an illustration of how it all works. Except for the odd bit of muck and whatnot, there isn't a lot of difference in stopping ability overall on or offroad between the two.

Anyways, I'm looking to do front brakes on my 97. They work fine and they were just done about 5,000 miles ago but the cheap pads squeak so bad. How are the black magic brakes when it comes to noise? Also, what do you sell for the rear shoes? Are they a black magic formula?
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They are dead silent. If they aren't, something else is wrong, find it. We have BMB for the back disc brakes.
 
Daz7 said:
I enjoy your posts Blaine, just other people also have opinions. It's a good forum and keeping it civil is a good thing sometimes you need to agree to disagree and just walk away.
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We all have things that formulate our reactions and create sensitivities that affect how we view things. You're obviously sensitive to some bullshit associated with me. What you don't see is how many posts I read per day where I do just that, yeah, that's going nowhere good and I back out and go find something else to work on.

If you notice though, there is a huge difference between opinion and fact. I rarely dabble in opinion and folks get very confused by the difference between opinion and fact.
 
Ct_tj said:
With what I deal with every day it seems like disc brakes wear out quicker than the average set of drum brakes. It won't just be a simple pad slap either, everything rusts where I am. So that means new/cut rotors due to the fact there will most likely be a decent sized rust lip on the edge of the rotor that could lead to issues. Not to mention all the seized slide pins that have seem to become more and more common. Drums seem to hold up against rust better than rotors up here, and changing out the shoes/hardware on a TJ is extremely easy compared to some of the newer imports that still use drum brakes. I think most people just get themselves too worked up and worried about doing the rear shoes. In my opinion i think drum brakes will work ok for what most people here use their rig for, until they get in to some serious off roading. Think that pretty much sums up some pros and cons.
I know you're a pretty respected brake and all around guru around here, so just curious if I'm missing something.
By the way, I do have some questions about the black magic brakes I'd like to talk to you about. I don't know if you have time to PM here or if I should go through the contact form on the site. Thanks.

EDIT: I HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR MY CONCLUSIONS. THEY ARE DRAWN FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
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With regard to your first comment after some more contemplation, it occurred to me that perhaps the reason the disc brakes wear faster is they don't quit working like drum brakes do when the adjuster shit gets all rusted to hell. Something to consider. They don't last as long because they actually stay working longer.
 
mrblaine said:
With regard to your first comment after some more contemplation, it occurred to me that perhaps the reason the disc brakes wear faster is they don't quit working like drum brakes do when the adjuster shit gets all rusted to hell. Something to consider. They don't last as long because they actually stay working longer.
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That's a fair point. It's also very common for me to see a set of pads frozen in the bracket and a few seized slide pins with a nice heavy coat of rust covering the entire rotor. Everything is going to rust and stop functioning properly if it isn't taken care of, disc or drum. I think it all just boils down to people not being in tune with their vehicle enough to realize something's not as good as it used to be/should be.

Thanks for the info on the brakes. I'll be ordering a set later. Cant wait to try them out.
 
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With regard to the Black magic rear disc conversion kit, I studied all the parts it provides and read Stu’s off-road link they provided. So did I get it right that I will have to buy the retainer plates that Stu mentions from a Jeep dealership?
 
ncfitton said:
With regard to the Black magic rear disc conversion kit, I studied all the parts it provides and read Stu’s off-road link they provided. So did I get it right that I will have to buy the retainer plates that Stu mentions from a Jeep dealership?
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You are looking for the Spicer 51762 which is the disc brake bearing retainer. It actually holds the axle into the housing.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc.........0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.jBicvqeMn38

Along with that you will need the Timken Set 10 bearing set to replace the bearings that "typically" get destroyed when you remove them. It includes the shaft collar that retains the bearing on the axle shaft.

I prefer the Timken 9912S oil seal since it has an expandable skirt to seal in the housing end bore versus the two small ridges around the circumference that the Spicer seal has.

Getting the retainers swapped on is generally the hardest part of the swap since it involves a shop press that most don't have.
 
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Daz7 said:
Probably a good time to swap in an upgraded axle set too with everything pressed on and ready to install.

https://www.revolutiongear.com/prod...and_lj_rubicon_and_non_wdisc_brakes_30_spline
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Now I am in for over a grand :ROFLMAO: classic Jeep project.

The main pro for me with a drum brakes would be saving money. Anyone had experience with these Powerstop kits on Amazon?

Power Stop Rear KOE15300DK Daily Driver Drum and Shoe Kits https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074RDFDDJ/?tag=wranglerorg-20
 
jodomcfrodo said:
Ah, so it comes out. You just don't know. You just repeat what others say. Good. Glad we finally came to that point. You have no reasonable explanation for the garbage you spout.

EDIT: Oh also, it's you're, not your.
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you do realize most everything you know and learn is from someone else right?
Some stuff you learn by doing, but did you follow any steps from a book, instruction manual or YouTube video or forum thread....
 
MallCrawlOnTons said:
you do realize most everything you know and learn is from someone else right?
Some stuff you learn by doing, but did you follow any steps from a book, instruction manual or YouTube video or forum thread....
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I think through everything I learn. I don’t care who says it, I never blindly quote anything. You admitted to blindly quoting something without any real understanding behind what you said. Give it up. Stop trying.
 
ncfitton said:
Now I am in for over a grand :ROFLMAO: classic Jeep project.

The main pro for me with a drum brakes would be saving money. Anyone had experience with these Powerstop kits on Amazon?

Power Stop Rear KOE15300DK Daily Driver Drum and Shoe Kits https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074RDFDDJ/?tag=wranglerorg-20
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In addition to my previous question, what is the difference at the axles between a Dana 35 and a Dana 44 rear diff. Many drum brake service kits are specified for the Dana 35 only.
 
jodomcfrodo said:
I think through everything I learn. I don’t care who says it, I never blindly quote anything. You admitted to blindly quoting something without any real understanding behind what you said. Give it up. Stop trying.
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Yea drum brakes not working well after wheeling didn’t teach me anything...
Blindly? Hmm I’ve given my experience here in this thread, doesn’t seem blind to me.
Also reading from Jeep and highly regarded members of the Jeep community and their recommendations is garbage...I almost forgot.
 
ncfitton said:
In addition to my previous question, what is the difference at the axles between a Dana 35 and a Dana 44 rear diff. Many drum brake service kits are specified for the Dana 35 only.
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The only difference is how the hard line over the pumpkin is bent. Everything else is the same except for the obvious difference in axle bearings. The 35 doesn't have to have anything done there so in effect, a rear disc conversion for a 35 is a couple hundred cheaper since you don't need the disc brake specific retainers for the axle shafts.
 
mrblaine said:
The only difference is how the hard line over the pumpkin is bent. Everything else is the same except for the obvious difference in axle bearings. The 35 doesn't have to have anything done there so in effect, a rear disc conversion for a 35 is a couple hundred cheaper since you don't need the disc brake specific retainers for the axle shafts.
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Thanks @mrblaine . So we think a drum brake service kit for a Dana 35 will be just fine for the Dana 44 drums also?

I want to get these drums back on the road and contemplate the conversion to disc on a second set of axles as I find parts. I really appreciate all the technical advice you gave. Definitely the bearing press is a show stopper for me so I will have to work with my local shop.
 
ncfitton said:
Thanks @mrblaine . So we think a drum brake service kit for a Dana 35 will be just fine for the Dana 44 drums also?

I want to get these drums back on the road and contemplate the conversion to disc on a second set of axles as I find parts. I really appreciate all the technical advice you gave. Definitely the bearing press is a show stopper for me so I will have to work with my local shop.
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There are not Dana 44 drum brakes and Dana 35 drum brakes. There are drum brakes on the rear axles of TJ since they are identical parts.

Easy way to find out is to use the Rock Auto buyer's guide. Click on any part number, the buyer's guide will pop up and show what vehicles the part also fits.
 
mrblaine said:
There are not Dana 44 drum brakes and Dana 35 drum brakes. There are drum brakes on the rear axles of TJ since they are identical parts.

Easy way to find out is to use the Rock Auto buyer's guide. Click on any part number, the buyer's guide will pop up and show what vehicles the part also fits.
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Thanks. I just found this thread which might explain why my handbrake doesn’t work. The drums and shoes looked like they have plenty of life left.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/doing-rear-drum-brakes-a-must-read.1987/post-403803
 
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