Software Updates

Kristin

Kristin

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Joined
Jan 2, 2019
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18
Location
South africa
Hi All

I have a 2004 Jeep Wrangler. The other day the engine light came on and the saga began....

I have read quite a few threads on o2 sensors and so on, how to replace them, this and that.

I took it to the shop this am and they guys cannot definitively tell me what the exact issue is. They are, however, leaning towards a software update. Is it normal for a software update to be so extremely expensive? Does it have to be done if one wanted to take out all the cats and install a free flow. I live in South Africa where there are no emissions laws at all. There is no other problems with the car other than it being heavy on petrol, which is probably to be expected since it is a 4l, although it is quite bad even by that standard. The mechanics also told me it has 2 cat foolers installed. Why would it have that? Would it be that the previous owners tried to fix it on the cheap? I don't know much about how the system really works and how a cat fooler would work in the mix there.....anyway, any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
 
Hi All

So I have spoken to more mechanics and they have told me that there are cat foolers on the car which shouldn't be there are that are incorrectly fitted on the wrong sensors (on the rear I think). My question is why would there be cat foolers fitted to the car? Their diagnostic equipment pointed to the cat fooler code. Go figure....
Once they remove the foolers, they want to test the car through a few cycles to see if the light comes on again and what it throws out. They reckon it could be that the cat foolers were installed to avoid paying for huge software update cost. But it is a 50-50 chance that once the cat foolers are removed, it would need an update or just be fine.....any ideas of this? Thanks....
 
I think this is the first post I read where someone was told a software update was required. Saying it's a huge cost update also has me puzzled. Maybe @Chris will remember reading something about it?
 
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derekmac said:
I think this is the first post I read where someone was told a software update was required. Saying it's a huge cost update also has me puzzled. Maybe @Chris will remember reading something about it?
Click to expand...

As far as I recall, there was an issue where certain O2 sensor codes wouldn't go away, and it required a software update. However, the number of Jeeps affected by this was not that large if my memory serves me well.

Any Jeep dealer (and possibly any certified Jeep mechanic) should be able to perform the update, but I'm not sure about it beyond that. Why it would be expensive is beyond me. Updating the software is literally a plug-and-play affair that would take at most 15 minutes.

Perhaps some of it has do with the fact that he is in South Africa and maybe it's more expensive for things there? Or maybe the shop he is dealing with is just trying to pull a fast one on her.

Anyways, it would be helpful if @Kristin could tell us which codes she's getting from the CEL. I would try to fix it first before assuming it's a software update.
 
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Okay, so just to be clear, have you replaced all of your O2 sensors with new NTK / NGK ones (those are the only brands that will work)?

Do you have emissions inspections where you live? If you don't, you can get the HPTuners software and disable your O2 sensors like I did in mine. You'll never have to deal with the codes again, and your post-cat O2 sensors can then be removed completely, as can your catalytic convertors without any codes at all.

Here's the software I'm talking about:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...access-for-2005-2006-jeep-wrangler-tjs.16403/
 
FWIW, it could be worth checking you've got the right 02 sensors in there. Whoever owned my Jeep before me had one correct and one incorrect NTK O2 sensors in the upstream bank, causing intermittent problems and codes.
 
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An update on my situation........
Took my car to a really great exhaust place. They told me the cats had been removed at some point (WHY????????)
and the cat foolers are no longer working hence the codes being thrown out as the PCM is now looking for cats that are not there (see photos of dodgy rusty cat housings, if that is what one calls it). To respond to the lack of cats, the whole system is unbalanced and it is over fueling to compensate, hence the insanely bad petrol consumption.....At this moment it is getting the PCM remapped to divert it from the cats and make it think all is well. This has cost a fortune (over 700 dollars in US currency) BUT they say it will allow me to put on a free flow and not worry about cat codes ever again. Fingers crossed this works.......thanks everyone for all the help and advice....

IMG_20190114_141536.jpg


IMG_20190114_141545.jpg


IMG_20190114_141555.jpg
 
Your cats look normal and will naturally rust like that.

Like you said, by removing all of the O2 sensors from the PCM your engine can have mix issues. So your shop should still allow for the upper O2 sensors. They run about $35 each.
 
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So..... Update....... The pcm cannot be accessed..... Its simply not possible.... So now its option 1 ti figure out if the cats are there andif they are start with the o2 sensors..... A further option is to override the system with an aftermarket ecm fitted that only manages the engine emissions.... That means the light will be on permanently..... But its the cheapest option if it turns out yhe cats are not there or the o2 sensors need to be replaced....
A long day of serious frustrations......
 
It sounds like the shops you're using don't understand how the PCM functions.

Are you able to get the NGK sensors where you are at?

Kristin said:
A further option is to override the system with an aftermarket ecm fitted that only manages the engine emissions.... That means the light will be on permanently.
Click to expand...

Isn't this exactly where you are now?
 
Hi All.....
Latest update.......yet another story but one that makes sense at least.
A friend of mine has an Audi R8 which had a similar problem as my car. He was told by the dealerships that the car could not be fixed and needed at new PCM which basically costs nearly what the car is worth and this latest shop managed to fix it. Anyway, he helped me out and the guys at this shop reluctantly agreed to see my car as a favour to my friend. The latest story is that it is o2 sensor 1 on bank 1 and there is a fuel lean issue on one of the last 3 cylinders, which they think might be related to the injectors being dirty or blocked BUT it could also be related to the malfunctioning sensor. I do not understand how different PCM code analysers can give such varied results. I have been told twice now that it is an o2 sensor issue and once that it is the cats/cat fooler/software. The current shop definitively says it has nothing to do with the cats which they reckon are still there functioning fine but they cannot say why it has a cat fooler, possibly to avoid the replacement of the o2 sesnsor, which is very pricey here. So I am going to go with this latest advice as they seem to be the most knowledgeable of the guys I have dealt with. Does it sound like it makes sense?
 
I have no idea what it looks like... Although the exhaust guyvsaid its more like a sensor than a box so yes.... More like that pic from amazon....
 
Kristin said:
Hi All.....
Latest update.......yet another story but one that makes sense at least.
A friend of mine has an Audi R8 which had a similar problem as my car. He was told by the dealerships that the car could not be fixed and needed at new PCM which basically costs nearly what the car is worth and this latest shop managed to fix it. Anyway, he helped me out and the guys at this shop reluctantly agreed to see my car as a favour to my friend. The latest story is that it is o2 sensor 1 on bank 1 and there is a fuel lean issue on one of the last 3 cylinders, which they think might be related to the injectors being dirty or blocked BUT it could also be related to the malfunctioning sensor. I do not understand how different PCM code analysers can give such varied results. I have been told twice now that it is an o2 sensor issue and once that it is the cats/cat fooler/software. The current shop definitively says it has nothing to do with the cats which they reckon are still there functioning fine but they cannot say why it has a cat fooler, possibly to avoid the replacement of the o2 sesnsor, which is very pricey here. So I am going to go with this latest advice as they seem to be the most knowledgeable of the guys I have dealt with. Does it sound like it makes sense?
Click to expand...
If I were in your place, here is what I would do.
1-verify upper cats are intact by dropping the exhaust from the manifold and inspecting them to make sure the catalytic biscuit is in place and not damaged.
2- if the cats are good, order the correct O2 sensors from the US and have them economy shipped over if that is cheaper.
3- Install the correct sensors into the factory bungs with any foolers etc. removed and see what happens.

I do not know of an aftermarket PCM that will work. They may mean you have one that can be reprogrammed but that would be rare to find if it is not an 05-06.
 
So i have it booked in tomorrow to replace the o2 sensors and clean the injectors and low and behold this evening the dreaded light suddenly went off! All on its own.... It probably means whatever it is is on its way out.... Which confirms to me that it most likely o2 sensors...
 
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