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Sport Bar Improvements Discussion

xxdabroxx

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It seems that every forum has to hash this out at some point and since the conversation was brought up in the capabilities thread I figured I'd start this conversation.

I bring this up in a somewhat self serving manor as I can get a sport bar that has some additions for free. It's a little ugly and far from a cage but I cant help but think it has to be somewhat stronger than stock. I haven't seen it in person but I have a couple pictures my dad took of it.

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Does adding bars to the factory sports bar actually improve safety?

What additions reduce safety and in what situations?

Is there any merit to bolt in additions? (IE: Rock Hard stuff)

Are all of these additions to a factory sports bar nothing more than feel good mods and why?

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Chris

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I'll take @mrblaine and @toximus in this, since they seem to know a lot about this sort of thing.

I'm not knowledgable enough on this subject to know if additions to the factory sport bar actually improve safety in any way or not.
 
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xxdabroxx

xxdabroxx

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I completely understand the head clearance to bars concept from building a roll bar to meet NHRA specifications. Not only do they need so much clearance but they also need to be padded and they are assuming that a helmet will be worn. The free cage I posted above poses some real questions for me about head clearance and rear passengers which I do occasionally have in the Jeep.

I don't think any of the front additions have reduced head clearance to a point that it would pose a problem but I'd need to get it in the Jeep to really see how close it gets. I can't imagine the front center bar is any closer the the head than many of the CB racks that are often installed.

They also added some additional plating to the angle pieces that connect to the dash for what that's worth. There is no triangulation in it anywhere though so I'm not sure how much stronger any of it really is.
 
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toximus

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Everything in your pictures is not a roll cage.

It's a little ugly and far from a cage but I cant help but think it has to be somewhat stronger than stock.
Search around to see what the stock roll cage has saved people from. Why do you want stronger than stock?
 
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xxdabroxx

xxdabroxx

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Everything in your pictures is not a roll cage.



Search around to see what the stock roll cage has saved people from. Why do you want stronger than stock?
Why did I put a 6 point roll bar in a 73 olds to run in the 12's? Roll bar isn't required until the 11's. We make everything else on our jeeps stronger why not make the safety equipment stronger too. We obviously take them stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people although I don't do most of them at high speed a lot of them are next to steep drops.
 
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mrblaine

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Why did I put a 6 point roll bar in a 73 olds to run in the 12's? Roll bar isn't required until the 11's. We make everything else on our jeeps stronger why not make the safety equipment stronger too. We obviously take them stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people although I don't do most of them at high speed a lot of them are next to steep drops.
Ever met a female that was just a little bit pregnant? There are not degrees of pregnancy, you either are, or you aren't. If you are concerned about safety next to steep drop offs, then you need to be safe. Not a little bit safer, not more safe, you need to be safe.
 

toximus

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Why did I put a 6 point roll bar in a 73 olds to run in the 12's? Roll bar isn't required until the 11's. We make everything else on our jeeps stronger why not make the safety equipment stronger too. We obviously take them stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people although I don't do most of them at high speed a lot of them are next to steep drops.
Something needs to take the energy from an impact... What's it going to be?

When that something takes the energy, what moves? The last thing you want is to strengthen part of the cage which puts too much force on another part and that part breaks/bends/snaps and impales the driver or passenger.

If you can't turn down the "stupid things with stupid people", the next step isn't a stronger cage, it's a harness and helmet.

Are you looking for a cage that you can drive away from a roll over with, or a cage that saves your life but needs repairs after?
 

-T.

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Everything in your pictures is not a roll cage.



Search around to see what the stock roll cage has saved people from. Why do you want stronger than stock?
Following - And, if I can add 0.2, I have been wanting to do add something similar to my own Jeep, not necessarily for any additional strength, but more to be able to lower the windshield more easily, while keeping some protection up front, should I go over with the windshield down.
 
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mrblaine

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Following - And, if I can add 0.2, I have been wanting to do add something similar to my own Jeep, not necessarily for any additional strength, but more to be able to lower the windshield more easily, while keeping some protection up front, should I go over with the windshield down.
Predicting the future.
 

toximus

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Following - And, if I can add 0.2, I have been wanting to do add something similar to my own Jeep, not necessarily for any additional strength, but more to be able to lower the windshield more easily, while keeping some protection up front, should I go over with the windshield down.
Unless you're planning on rolling over in a parking lot, how are you going to protect yourself from intrusions such as uneven ground, rocks, and tree stumps? What's going to keep your arms from flying out of the roll cage and getting caught between the cage and the ground?
 
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-T.

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Unless you're planning on rolling over in a parking lot, how are you going to protect yourself from intrusions such as uneven ground, rocks, and tree stumps? What's going to keep your arms from flying out of the roll cage and getting caught between the cage and the ground?
I'm not sure what your point is here. Help me understand.
 
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Goatman

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My 2 cent...If it isn't tied into the frame then it is a fun bar, a pretend bar, a speaker location bracket, what ever. And the fact that Jeep does not even offer something as an option is borderline criminal. I know most people (me included) will never get in a position requiring a real roll bar, these are tall and twitchy vehicles that are far more likely to roll into a ditch than a Camary and should have better safety.

But then we would bitch like crazy if they put real doors and real roofs and real winshields. So what can be done? I think an optional bar system should be available from the dealer level at the least.
 
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Brianj5600

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How many hits can a stock bar take before it flattens out on the tub? I am not worried about tipping over on the roof one time. I'm more worried about tumbling down the hill.
 

-T.

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Meaning, if a rock were to punch through the window area or through the top area, it could still hit you.
I agree. But I said I primarily want a front 'sport' cage so that I can easily fold down the windshield. I am going to go out on a limb and say that, having some sort of cage like structure up front is likely better than none, but I have no real problem with the factory bars, just as they are, aside from the fact that I have to take so much apart to fold down the windshield, and I loose the use of the door surrounds until I reassemble.
 

Gollywomper

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Meaning, if a rock were to punch through the window area or through the top area, it could still hit you.
Absolutely, there will be limitations with anything that is built. Who runs hand/arm restraints while wheeling? Or window nets? Solid doors with cross bars?
Look at some of the big rolls that happen in Colorado. They roll down 500’-1000’ hills. Guess head and neck restraints should be used as well?
When is the point that safe is safe? Off roading is inherently dangerous. Bad things can and do happen.
 
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xxdabroxx

xxdabroxx

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Something needs to take the energy from an impact... What's it going to be?

When that something takes the energy, what moves? The last thing you want is to strengthen part of the cage which puts too much force on another part and that part breaks/bends/snaps and impales the driver or passenger.

If you can't turn down the "stupid things with stupid people", the next step isn't a stronger cage, it's a harness and helmet.

Are you looking for a cage that you can drive away from a roll over with, or a cage that saves your life but needs repairs after?
The "stupid things..." really referenced quite normal activities for someone who actually takes their jeep offroad. I don't do anything too crazy but to your average Joe who goes to the mall the rubicon, etc. looks pretty darn crazy.

Is there no room for Good, Better, Best when it comes to roll bars?