I'm new this this and have heard a Little about cable winch maintenance being so hard and rope winch getting damaged by Sun and grit. Which winch is the best value and should it be hydraulic or electric?
Steel vs. Synthetic Winch Line?
- Thread starter skooter84
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Hydraulic winches are the commercial standard for towing. But you need a pump, reservoir, and means to power the pump meaning the motor must be running. Not good if you are under water. And the installation might entail lots of custom work... Unless it is the MileMarker one run off the power steering pump. I just think the stock power steering pump is way under sized to run a winch.
Electric winches are bolt on items. And they run even if the motor dies.
Steel vs Synthetic.
I'm old school and steel is my choice. Maintenance???? Really on a steel cable. I've run commercial winches for 40 years and NEVER done any "cable maintenance".
But synthetic has its plusses. Not sure I'd trust a 15 year old synthetic rope tho.
Electric winches are bolt on items. And they run even if the motor dies.
Steel vs Synthetic.
I'm old school and steel is my choice. Maintenance???? Really on a steel cable. I've run commercial winches for 40 years and NEVER done any "cable maintenance".
But synthetic has its plusses. Not sure I'd trust a 15 year old synthetic rope tho.
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@billiebob is correct.
Steel is tried and proven and will last probably longer than you own the vehicle. However, synthetic rope (which is what I run) has it's advantages as well.
Synthetic rope is a great product for many vehicle recovery situations. If you winch a lot and are concerned about weight, synthetic can be a great option since it is lightweight and easy to handle. It doesn't develop sharp burrs like steel rope, and doesn't store as much potential energy when under load. On the flip side, synthetic rope is more prone to abrasion, and should be regularly inspected for frays or other damage caused by UV, chemicals, and overall use. And when using synthetic, you always want to lay down the abrasion sleeve when needed to guard against rope damage.
Steel rope is extremely durable, and is good for both vehicle recovery and utility work, such as moving trees, rocks, etc., since it resists abrasion very well. Ultra-violet wear is also not a factor with steel rope, and it may be a better choice for you if you don't frequently use your winch. Steel rope is heavier than synthetic, can develop rust, and can also develop sharp burrs. This is one reason why we always recommend users always wear heavy gloves to protect their hands while handling the rope.
Some people immediately think synthetic rope is safer than steel rope. Although steel rope will store more potential energy, since it's made out of steel, it is less prone to abrasion (and possible fraying). The bottom line is that no matter which line you choose, you need to follow safe winching techniques and take all necessary safety precautions.
Hopefully this answers your question @skooter84.
Bottom line: You can't go wrong with either!
Steel is tried and proven and will last probably longer than you own the vehicle. However, synthetic rope (which is what I run) has it's advantages as well.
Synthetic rope is a great product for many vehicle recovery situations. If you winch a lot and are concerned about weight, synthetic can be a great option since it is lightweight and easy to handle. It doesn't develop sharp burrs like steel rope, and doesn't store as much potential energy when under load. On the flip side, synthetic rope is more prone to abrasion, and should be regularly inspected for frays or other damage caused by UV, chemicals, and overall use. And when using synthetic, you always want to lay down the abrasion sleeve when needed to guard against rope damage.
Steel rope is extremely durable, and is good for both vehicle recovery and utility work, such as moving trees, rocks, etc., since it resists abrasion very well. Ultra-violet wear is also not a factor with steel rope, and it may be a better choice for you if you don't frequently use your winch. Steel rope is heavier than synthetic, can develop rust, and can also develop sharp burrs. This is one reason why we always recommend users always wear heavy gloves to protect their hands while handling the rope.
Some people immediately think synthetic rope is safer than steel rope. Although steel rope will store more potential energy, since it's made out of steel, it is less prone to abrasion (and possible fraying). The bottom line is that no matter which line you choose, you need to follow safe winching techniques and take all necessary safety precautions.
Hopefully this answers your question @skooter84.
Bottom line: You can't go wrong with either!
silvercreek
Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2015
- Messages
- 82
The key to having good winch performance is taking care of the steel cable, knowing your winches limitations.
What Most People Don't Know About Winching
What Most People Don't Know About Winching
I've read nothing but positive things about the Voodoo and Bubba ropes. I plan to get one of those myself!
kinetic energy is great if the vehicle is moving. With a solid anchor tho like a winch to a tree that stretch and stored kinetic energy is down right dangerous. You want NO stretch in the cable. If you wind on 1" of cable you want the object to move 1". You do not want an elastic band effect and see the vehicle suddenly roll ahead 2'...
silvercreek
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- Joined
- Nov 2, 2015
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- 82
only problem I have with synthetic rope is the 25% up charge. I'll definitely stick with steel until synthetic saves me money.
OP
The transformation begins. Just purchased the smittybilt xrc 9,500 lb wire rope winch and a smittybilt arc gen2 front bumper to mount it on. Maybe Santa can work on the lift and tires. ;-)
I hear ya, the synthetic rope is quite a bit more. Hopefully they get cheaper over time!
Congratulations! It's much more than a transformation though... It's an addiction!
John Carmony
TJ Enthusiast
@billiebob I'm like you, old school, I like cable. When I bought my last winch I seriously though about rope... I decided with steel. Some of the ones I researched the steel cable was longer vs rope. Either way tho, you can't lose with a winch.
@skooter84 That is the winch I decided on. It is an impressive winch.
@skooter84 That is the winch I decided on. It is an impressive winch.
Both lines store energy when stretched and that energy is released when the line parts under load. The difference is the weight and the simple way to understand it is you and your buddy each grab a 4 foot long piece of synthetic and the same in steel. Stand about 4 feet apart and take turns whipping each other and see who can inflict the most damage. I guarantee you the guy getting hit with the steel cable will run first.
The advantages of synthetic outweigh every aspect of steel except cost. We wheel some waterfalls in JV that you need a safety tether on. The ability to stand at the bottom of a 10 foot tall waterfall, unspool 20 feet of line and hand toss the whole mess up to the top is priceless.
The ability to spool on a same diameter line that is well over double the breaking strength of the same size steel at 1/5 the weight has some excellent value.
The ability to recombine and repair a broken or damaged line in the field with a simple buried tail splice is not to be sneezed at.
The extra strength alone is enough for me to switch even if it means I have to be just a tiny bit more aware of my rigging practices.
As for the maintenance of steel cable, it is most assuredly not maintenance free. If you do a bit of research, you'll discover that it needs to be cleaned, oiled, inspected for kinks, flat spots, bird's nesting, broken wires, and replaced if any evidence of those exist. The main reason folks think it is maintenance free is because they don't do any, not because it isn't required.
Synthetic isn't for everyone, but those of us who have been using it for a long time, wish it was. I switched in 2000 and at no point have I ever considered going back to steel for any reason.
They already have. My first winch line in synthetic was over 350 bucks for 5/16" diameter. Of the 10 or so I've run over the years, that one was the most expensive and I've only increased the diameter and quality since then.
Agreed, wire rope needs maintenance too.
Winches are pretty common around here. Every logger has one on his pickup and alto many of them won't get used for 10 years... when they do need to winch that steel cable is ready to go. Not sure I would put the same blind trust in a synthetic rope which had been running around on the front bumper for 10 years.
There are a few guys with first generation Dodge diesels... they put the 8274 on the truck 25 years ago and they still run the original wire rope. I use my winch more to pull logs out of the bush than to get unstuck.
But I definitely agree with the advantages mrblaine notes.
Winches are pretty common around here. Every logger has one on his pickup and alto many of them won't get used for 10 years... when they do need to winch that steel cable is ready to go. Not sure I would put the same blind trust in a synthetic rope which had been running around on the front bumper for 10 years.
There are a few guys with first generation Dodge diesels... they put the 8274 on the truck 25 years ago and they still run the original wire rope. I use my winch more to pull logs out of the bush than to get unstuck.
But I definitely agree with the advantages mrblaine notes.
I tend to keep things in context and perspective. We are not on a Dodge Diesel Forum and we are trying to educate those with Jeeps about their options. I wouldn't put my blind trust in any winch line that hasn't been unspooled in 10 years. I don't trust myself to remember that it was spooled with the right tension 10 years ago and I don't trust that some salt water hasn't gotten in there and turned the line into a giant ball of ferrous oxide. If that line was spooled in wet from an area with road salt during wet conditions, it isn't able to be trusted. It would however, suffer no ill effects under the same abuse were it a synthetic line.
What tends to get overlooked is synthetic line was first used on marine vessels for commercial fishing and towing. That is one of the harshest environments that equipment can endure and none of them have gone back to steel for many reasons but being impervious to rust, chemicals, acids, and similar is near the top. With today's advances in UV resistant dyes and coatings, that is very much not an issue.
I do not expect to change your mind and don't intend to but others may need some counter points to the "old school" mentality and want to know what to expect if they are anticipating a switch to a different option.
Get what works for your needs and know why you're doing it.
Exactly, which is why I replaced my first winch's wire rope twice before finally switching to synthetic. Inspections of my wire ropes over not that many years uncovered kinks, flat spots, and broken wire strands. That damage likely occurred during the occasional multiple winching jobs in one day where I wasn't able to respool it perfectly after each use. That meant the wire would get damaged from being pulled down through layers that weren't as tight as they would have been after a proper respooling. That wouldn't have happened with synthetic. My winch had 3 wire ropes on it from damage thru lots of use but I stopped needing replacements once the switch was made to synthetic.
And as mentioned above, synthetic rope's longevity has been proven by it having been used in maritime operations for many years before we discovered it for use on our offroad winches. Which is to say civilian and naval vessels have been using synthetic line (which is treated for UV exposure) for many years and often leaving it out in the sun without issue.
So in my own personal experience, I've had significantly better experiences with synthetic ropes than my three previous wire ropes that became damaged (more easily than I expected) to the point they needed replacement.
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Excellant point !!
I have never considered synthetic to be that durable.
I still consider wire cable to be much more maintenance free.
And of course there are all levels of quality in either choice.
A cheap steel cable is bound to be no better than a cheap synthetic cable... talking quality/materials, not price.
And yes, your use is the key to making a choice. I think.. again my perception... is that even the best synthetic cables require more maintenance than the best steel cables.
In the bush, logging, steel is still the standard.
Having owned multiples of both, my experience is exactly the opposite of that. It doesn't sound like you have any significant personal experience with or have ever owned a synthetic rope.
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When pulling trees with the winch, would steel be the better option since it's less likely to fray?
Of course I realize we aren't pulling trees with the winches on our Jeep (most of us at least).
Of course I realize we aren't pulling trees with the winches on our Jeep (most of us at least).