Steering / Suspension Question

I guess what I am looking for is complete steering rebuild. Let me know how you would tear this down and build it again. I'm gonna order the parts online and install myself, so any links/complete part lists would be helpful.

Can I keep the Ironman adjustable track bar, but add in a currie Currectlync tie rod/DL? Or if this gets too expensive, I may go with the Crown HD kit for now.

As I understand it:
Remove the drop pitman
Remove the drop track bar bracket
replace the bushings
Maybe a new steering dampner?
Are new shocks recommended?

I'll look at the upward travel via upper jounce tomorrow.
 
DrTwitch said:
I guess what I am looking for is complete steering rebuild. Let me know how you would tear this down and build it again. I'm gonna order the parts online and install myself, so any links/complete part lists would be helpful.

Can I keep the Ironman adjustable track bar, but add in a currie Currectlync tie rod/DL? Or if this gets too expensive, I may go with the Crown HD kit for now.

As I understand it:
Remove the drop pitman
Remove the drop track bar bracket
replace the bushings
Maybe a new steering dampner?
Are new shocks recommended?

I'll look at the upward travel via upper jounce tomorrow.
Click to expand...
If you’re not going rock crawling/wheeling pop those jounces out, test drive it and see if they were hitting while cornering. ZJ steering conversion is a good setup
 
Although the previous owner did an un-needed drop track bar and pitman arm I would not recommend trying to go back to the oem location with an oem pitman given that it looks like the oem track bar bracket was cut off. It is possible to reverse - just a lot of work to do right. If you want to properly set your bumpstops so they don’t hit while road driving you need to remove the springs and cycle the axle up and down while the frame is on jack stands to see where things hit and then set the bump there. Most likely you have way too long a stop which is why you feel it. The bumps were probably set like that because of the lowered TB bracket, another reason it sucks.
 
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BuildBreakRepeat said:
Although the previous owner did an un-needed drop track bar and pitman arm I would not recommend trying to go back to the oem location with an oem pitman given that it looks like the oem track bar bracket was cut off. It is possible to reverse - just a lot of work to do right. If you want to properly set your bumpstops so they don’t hit while road driving you need to remove the springs and cycle the axle up and down while the frame is on jack stands to see where things hit and then set the bump there. Most likely you have way too long a stop which is why you feel it. The bumps were probably set like that because of the lowered TB bracket, another reason it sucks.
Click to expand...

Here's a zoom of the dropped track bar mount. It looks like it's bolted on, do you have a link to a replacement OEM mount or even one from Currie if I'm going to buy their track bar?

Screenshot_20190913-064530.png
 
BuildBreakRepeat said:
Although the previous owner did an un-needed drop track bar and pitman arm I would not recommend trying to go back to the oem location with an oem pitman given that it looks like the oem track bar bracket was cut off. It is possible to reverse - just a lot of work to do right. If you want to properly set your bumpstops so they don’t hit while road driving you need to remove the springs and cycle the axle up and down while the frame is on jack stands to see where things hit and then set the bump there. Most likely you have way too long a stop which is why you feel it. The bumps were probably set like that because of the lowered TB bracket, another reason it sucks.
Click to expand...
If the PO removed the frame side track bar mount it might be difficult to go back to OEM that is of course what was done to the frame etc. The double shear track bar and mount, the extended jounces, and the dropped pitman are all earmarks of a taller lift. The track bar is likely usable as long as it doesn’t hit anything when you cycle your suspension, the dropped pitman arm should be replaced, the jounce extensions need to go but you need to pull your springs and cycle your suspension to determine their proper length. I suspect the shocks were for a taller lift as well, if so that would also limit up travel ( you would need to remove the boots to see how much travel is left while at ride height)
 
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Something else you will want to consider. Your rear Dana 35 with stock gearing, if in fact everything is still stock? those 35" tires will eventually cause that rear to commit suicide.
Mine is a 99 Sahara, Dana 35, stock 3:73 gears, no limited slip or locker with 33" tires. This happened a few months ago pulling out of my driveway. This may or may not happen, usually the axle shaft will snap,,, mine decided to snap the carrier in half.
20190630_154025.jpg

When you change your gearing to compensate for the larger tires, you have a couple options. install a Super 35 kit which upgrades your axle size to 30 spline and a locker. Change the whole the rear diff to a Dana 44. Or install smaller tires.
Super 35 kit at 4low Parts:
https://www.4lowparts.com/shop/super-35-rear-axle-kit-detroit-locker-revolution/
 
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The lower control arm mounts on the Dana 30 look like Artec’s, that has me wondering if they are in the stock location.
 
Seems like it was headed in the right direction. Just needs some things cleaned up.

Install some OE jounce bumpers. The ones you have are hard poly ones. Depending your shock travel, that may be your hard "jolt". The lower CA skids do look like artecs. Could be that he ripped the OE one off and replaced them with Artecs 1/4" skids. Pop the cover or pull the rear wheel and see what you have for gearing. Usually an aftermarket shaft will have its logo at the end of the shaft behind the center cap of the wheel. Cant go wrong with Currie steering. Bilstiens are a harsh ride for a TJ. I would recommend a set of Ranchos 5000x shocks that are matched with correct travel lengths (meaning; cycle your suspension and determine correct shock lengths)
 
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tworley said:
Seems like it was headed in the right direction. Just needs some things cleaned up.

Install some OE jounce bumpers. The ones you have are hard poly ones. Depending your shock travel, that may be your hard "jolt". The lower CA skids do look like artecs. Could be that he ripped the OE one off and replaced them with Artecs 1/4" skids. Pop the cover or pull the rear wheel and see what you have for gearing. Usually an aftermarket shaft will have its logo at the end of the shaft behind the center cap of the wheel. Cant go wrong with Currie steering. Bilstiens are a harsh ride for a TJ. I would recommend a set of Ranchos 5000x shocks that are matched with correct travel lengths (meaning; cycle your suspension and determine correct shock lengths)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like a solid plan, and I plan to get new shocks as well.

If I remove the dropped pitman, but leave the track bar on the modified lower mount, will the angle of the DL be too far off from the angle of the track bar? Ideally we want to raise them both at the same angle correct? By fixing the pitman am I creating a more significant bump steer issue?

Because I can go back to OEM pitman tomorrow if that will help.
 
Hook_62 said:
Something else you will want to consider. Your rear Dana 35 with stock gearing, if in fact everything is still stock? those 35" tires will eventually cause that rear to commit suicide.
Mine is a 99 Sahara, Dana 35, stock 3:73 gears, no limited slip or locker with 33" tires. This happened a few months ago pulling out of my driveway. This may or may not happen, usually the axle shaft will snap,,, mine decided to snap the carrier in half.
View attachment 115005
When you change your gearing to compensate for the larger tires, you have a couple options. install a Super 35 kit which upgrades your axle size to 30 spline and a locker. Change the whole the rear diff to a Dana 44. Or install smaller tires.
Super 35 kit at 4low Parts:
https://www.4lowparts.com/shop/super-35-rear-axle-kit-detroit-locker-revolution/
Click to expand...

How long did you get away with stock before the reckoning came? I want 4.56 gears, ADB locker, chromoly shafts, and aaalllll the splines. But, money...

The rear axle was supposed to be the first project I tackled, but this steering thing looks like it's gonna eat a big part of my axle budget. I'm hoping I can put that off for a year now
 
DrTwitch said:
Any concerns with the artec CAs other than they might be moved from stock? Are they a good replacement
Click to expand...
Yes very good, I guess my point was that there were a considerable number of mods done to your TJ to have a 4” lift with no travel.
 
If the track bar is dropped, then the pitman arm needs to stay dropped.
 
What is wrong with the track bar bracket? Why does it have to go? With a lifted jeep the dropped pitman arm would help return the steering geometry closer to stock. I would think that is a good thing.

The second picture looks like the steering box bolts are at an angle in the picture, Does that look normal?

If the steering really moves from 11-1 o'clock it needs addressed. The alignment might be off too, but getting slack out of the wheel sounds like a new box is needed. Toe out and not enough caster could be causing the steering to wander also.

Have someone wiggle the steering wheel back and forth and check for play in any of the TREs.

The stock steering can pretzel, but I wheeled mine a couple times on some decently tough trails and had no trouble. Depending on how difficult of trails you plan on taking will determine if you really need to upgrade. Don't fix things that are not broke.

The front bump stops should have a slightly smaller gap the the length of shock shaft showing. The upper bump stop is the metal cup on top and not the soft cushioning part in the cup.

The rear is the same except the angle of the shock changes the axle to shock travel ratio, especially as it gets closer to full bump.
 
jjvw said:
If the track bar is dropped, then the pitman arm needs to stay dropped.
Click to expand...

I got a chance to get under the Jeep again this morning. Looks like the stock TB frame mount is still there. They didn't put any holes or bolts thru the OEM mount, but did add an aftermarket TB mount forward of it.

It looks like I can unbolt the lower TB mount and move the track bar back to the stock location. I can also at the same time get rid of the dropped pitman arm.

Here's the question, does anyone see a clearance issue with this ironman4x4fab track bar in the OEM TB mount Location? It looks like the front Diff would get close to hitting it on a full flex if turning.

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This is the track bar and track bar mount. The threads for the OE mount have been bored out....

https://www.ironman4x4fab.com/product-page/tj-front-track-bar-system
"Our creative solution for this double shear track bar utilizes the OE track bar mount by drilling it out to 5/8". The bracket then slides up onto the frame rail and 3 more holes are drilled through the side of the frame. The center location hole is also utilized. In total, 5 fasteners now secure the 1/4" thick, 50,000 psi bracket in place."
 
DrTwitch said:
This is the track bar and track bar mount. The threads for the OE mount have been bored out....

https://www.ironman4x4fab.com/product-page/tj-front-track-bar-system
"Our creative solution for this double shear track bar utilizes the OE track bar mount by drilling it out to 5/8". The bracket then slides up onto the frame rail and 3 more holes are drilled through the side of the frame. The center location hole is also utilized. In total, 5 fasteners now secure the 1/4" thick, 50,000 psi bracket in place."
Click to expand...

I wonder how they keep the frame from deforming without sleeves.
 
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