Synthetic rope failure: Does it drop or recoil?
- Thread starter jjvw
- Start date
Well, OK, apparently. But what's different about the chafe guard in the third video?
Weight of one more tire
A true point of contact chafe/abrasion guard (in 3rd video) will have a lining, regardless of the exterior material, that does not heat or damage the winch rope as it passes through under load. The regular nylon sleeve (videos 1 and 2 ) is the junk everyone wants on their winch ropes, soft-shackles, ect... Don't get wrapped up about the colors of the sleeves, I could dye them whatever color.....doesn't make them suck any less.
It is a chafe guard that you have to carry out and place where it is needed. It is not a tubular sleeve that gets worn through instantly as seen in the second video.
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So for someone who isn't familiar with these products, how would you identify a decent chafe guard? I browsed around, and it looks like almost all the products out there are cheap nylon sleeves — those are easy to spot. But are there examples of good chafe guards? Warn? Others?
Thickness and toughness are first and then ease of use. Something with a thick industrial felt or several layers of polyester or similar webbing sewn inside a tough outer layer. Preferably with a stitch line down the middle that acts as a pre-folded hinge of sorts so you can orient the opening away from the abrasion source.
If you have a fire station near you, old, out of service fire hose makes a great chaffing guard. Ask for a piece of "handline" (1 1/2", 1 3/4" or 2" depending on the department). Cut it as long as you think you will need (I typically cut them about 2 1/2') slit it long ways. Most fire hose has a rubber lining that is very durable and the outer layer is two layers of very abrasion resistant polyester or nylon.
I tossed probably 1000’ of it last winter. Years ago we used it as air hose. The rubber liner would fold in on it’s self.
Found a much better product, yellow ribbed lay flat. I know our fire department uses it too as i helped them attempt to fight a fire, but that’s another story.
https://www.new-line.com/hose/layfl...rge-water-hose/yellow-ribbed-layflat-air-hose
Well I ordered the TRE aluminum Hawse fairlead yesterday, it’s a no brainer when someone puts as much thought into the back of the fairlead and how the rope runs on it as well as putting a scribe line to let you know how big the opening in the plate should be. I’m really disappointed that Warn puts a fairlead that will damage the rope in their synthetic rope winch packaging.
Here is an illustration of why the scribe mark and rear radius on the TRE hawse fairlead are such nice features:
OP
And to update my situation, the fairlead mount on my bumper is too small all around. Which means I will be making a new fairlead mount as I continue to convert my recovery system to synthetic.
OP
8.125 x 1.75" slot on the mount for the TRE hawse.
It's nothing that can't be cut out of an existing mount. On mine there is now enough that I want to change that cutting it out and replacing it makes more sense.
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Just checked my GR mount plenty of clearance at 8.75” looks like it will clear vertically also as it’s open on top.
The sharp angle that rope is running across in those videos is very unrealistic. Those chaff guards aren't meant to handle angles that sharp. They're made for protecting the line when running over a boulder, or a small crest. Something where the line changes direction by up 10 or 20 degrees, not almost completely 180 degrees. In the the video, you are basically sawing the rope rather than rubbing it.
I still think that they will wear the line down. Woven nylon is abrasive when you have so much down force. A pull with 6000 lb of line tension with 10 degrees of direction change results in 2000 lbs of downforce.
Regardless, if you're making a demonstration about the effectiveness of something, you have to do your due diligence in making it realistic otherwise you over exaggerate the results.
I still think that they will wear the line down. Woven nylon is abrasive when you have so much down force. A pull with 6000 lb of line tension with 10 degrees of direction change results in 2000 lbs of downforce.
Regardless, if you're making a demonstration about the effectiveness of something, you have to do your due diligence in making it realistic otherwise you over exaggerate the results.
You are clearly missing the point. The point is tubular abrasion guard can not be relied upon to protect your line and if you pay very close attention, the exact same test was done with a real abrasion guard with no detrimental effect to the line. The goal of the test is to show the comparative effectiveness of two different types of protection under the same extreme circumstances. The test was designed to be exaggerated due to the light weights involved which could be doubled easily for a very visual representation of the forces involved.
Yes, the first video showed "sawing" but that is also due to the very light weight. That is 150 lbs hanging on the line and that is the same tubular guard that is used on the 20,000 lb rated lines. The second video showed what the difference is between sawing and just a straight pull with the only change being a new spot in the tubular guard and another 150 lbs.
The bigger point you missed is not the woven tubular guard being abrasive, instead the line itself did the abrasion which wore through the tubular guard almost instantly and subjected the rope fibers to direct contact with the rock's sharp edges.
Since you bring up the 6000 lbs of line tension with a 2000 lb. downforce, it shouldn't be hard for you to calculate a 180 degree COD and 300 lbs line tension as a comparison. The pull parted the line at 300 lbs. and 6" of travel. You really want to trust your rig, possibly you, and your line to that?
I'm not advocating for the abrasion guard, I'm saying the comparison is has some flaws. The comparison clearly shows that the other guard is much better, but a more realistic comparison would tell us whether they are good enough.
You can't fault me for missing a point that wasn't in the videos. The videos don't show what the guard looked like afterwards. So it's a reasonable assumption that the rope broke from rubbing against the guard while under a tensile load, and the guard didn't because it was only subjected to the friction.
Once again, the comparison isn't realistic because the rope is being run over a knife edge which really increases the stress due to the small contact area. While yes the woven guard was terrible in that scenario, the videos don't prove that they wouldn't work over an edge with a much larger radius. I definitely suspect that they wouldn't be up to snuff, but there's no proof in the videos.